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The_Face_of_Boo
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23 May 2021, 12:10 pm

^^ He should have built a dome.

That reminds of me a Simpsons episode.



Jiheisho
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23 May 2021, 12:14 pm

Cornflake wrote:
True enough - even Trump's super-wall was defeated by... ladders. :lol:


Sorry, I have not been following this for a while: which did the Mexicans end up paying for?



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23 May 2021, 12:46 pm

Their ladders. :lol:
Despite Trump's noise, Mexico hasn't contributed one cent to the cost of the wall.


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uncommondenominator
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23 May 2021, 9:58 pm

Cornflake wrote:
Their ladders. :lol:
Despite Trump's noise, Mexico hasn't contributed one cent to the cost of the wall.


Ladders were just one of many tricks. The average DeWalt sawzall was capable of ripping thru whole sections of wall in minutes. In some areas, sections of wall were being cut up and used as building materials. In other words, 'murica went "we built a WALL, with STEEL and BARBED WIRE!" and some people saw that and went "thanks for the free steel and barbed wire!" and cut it up and took it.

We've know a long time that walls don't work, unless they're covered in armed soldiers. Why anyone expected THIS wall to be any more special is beyond me. People have been getting past walls for hundreds of years. In addition to the age old methods of LADDERS and TUNNELS, we now have a plethora of easily acquired modern tools who's sole purpose it to demolish things. Hand-held tools. Cordless tools. Tools that can rip thru concrete and steel surprisingly fast. Let alone the capabilities of HEAVY equipment. Not to mention the invention of FLIGHT.

Biden "loses control" of the border? I didn't realize we were supposed to be a fascist regime, and have TOTAL AND ABOLUTE CONTROL AT ALL TIMES!! ! of every inch of border. As bad as "they say" it is, I'm surprised there aren't any videos of immigrant hordes streaming across the border like armies in a lord of the rings movie. But then again, from the party that started foaming at the mouth and shrieking in horror that a plastic potato wasn't a "mister" any more, I can only imagine what minor nothing they must be freaking out over, and what they consider "loses control" as a result.

Reality aside tho, it DOES make for a fun headline. And the way it's in quotes like that makes it sound more like biden went to mexico WITH the border, and the border got all drunk and started making trouble, and biden was unable to stop the border from stealing a bulldozer and going on a joyride - like something out of a Hangover movie.



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04 Jun 2023, 6:42 am

LOL. I've been gone a while. Funny how the impending "total chaos" is still about to happen. It's a bit like those "The world will end on this date!" folks who just keep changing the date when the world fails to end.

Fear mongering at its best.



Honey69
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04 Jun 2023, 7:15 am

If anyone is interested in sane discourse on the issue:

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/25/11782701 ... nt-pan-out


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mrpieceofwork
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04 Jun 2023, 7:57 am

Image


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Honey69
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04 Jun 2023, 8:23 am

Was Ema Lazarus' famous poem, The New Colossus, intended to apply strictly to people from Northern Europe?

Ema Lazarus wrote:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



Image


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mrpieceofwork
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04 Jun 2023, 8:36 am

I'd have to confirm dates and such, but I'm pretty sure 1) both borders in the US were wide open at the close of the Civil War, and 2) as industrialization ramped up, the US capital class needed "skilled labor", as well as consumers, and of course, better those needed masses be European, for "reasons"... so, yeah, looks like it.


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The_Walrus
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04 Jun 2023, 8:59 am

mrpieceofwork wrote:
Image

This is obviously half-baked.

Firstly because Schengen is not a wall, it's a way of making immigration easier. It is inclusionary, not exclusionary. Some Schengen countries have constructed hard barriers on their southern or eastern borders, and it is good and just to oppose them, but opposing the concept of Schengen is regressive.

Secondly because the DMZ is not South Korea's way of keeping foreigners out. It is the border between the two warring halves of Korea. As long as there is a belligerent military power in North Korea then there will need to be some sort of border. South Korea does accept refugees from North Korea - not as many as I'd like, but there have been over 33,000 since 1998.

Thirdly because this is not, in any sense, a coherent bloc. Now it's true that people from the US, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Canada, Israel, and South Korea can enter Schengen visa-free... but so can people from Brazil, Mexico, Malaysia, Colombia, and indeed much of Latin America, the Caribbean, the Balkans, and various small island countries. That's over 600 million additional people that the creator of this graphic just forgot existed.

Japan has its own set of visa waivers - no Brazil, but instead Indonesia, Turkiye, Thailand, and Tunisia, among others.

Contrastingly, nobody can enter Australia without a valid visa. Well, technically if you're from New Zealand you can apply after arrival, but everyone requires a visa, regardless of whether you are from the UK or Uganda.

There are also plenty of strict or militarised borders that are missing from this graphic because they don't fit the creator's narrative - for example, the China-North Korea border, the India-Pakistan border, the Kenya-Somalia border, the Morocco-Western Sahara border, the Turkmen-Uzbek border, or indeed the internal walls within the UK (in Northern Ireland) or Cyprus.

That said, the world would be a better place with totally open borders. But it's not a "West against the Rest" issue.



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04 Jun 2023, 9:04 am

If these migrants were coming from Norway, rather than "s**thole" countries, then our "conservatives" would be welcoming them with open arms.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... e-once-did

Quote:

In the Thursday meeting in which President Trump complained about "having all these people from s**thole countries come here" — and singled out Haiti, El Salvador and Africa as examples — he also added that, "we should have more people from Norway."

In fact there was a time when we did.

From 1870 to 1910 a quarter of Norway's working-age population emigrated, mostly to the United States. You read that right — one-fourth of its workers left the country.

Back then Norway was quite poor. Wages were less than a third of what they were in the United States. And the wave of emigration out of the country quickly benefited those who remained. That's because it reduced the supply of workers in Norway, so those left behind could demand higher wages. And this helped narrow Norway's wage gap with the U.S. by 25 percent over that same 40-year period, putting Norway on the path toward its status today as one of world's most prosperous nations....

...It turns out that the immigrants that Norway sent to the U.S. during that great migration wave of the 1870s were its poorest and least educated citizens...

...those who left Norway came from "some of the lowest skilled families. They are coming from either rural areas or they are [the product of fathers holding] lower skilled laborer positions in cities," she says.

And on arrival in the United States these Norwegian immigrants remained at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Compared to immigrants from the 15 other European nations that contributed to this great wave of arrivals, "the Norwegians held the lowest paid occupations in the U.S.," says Boustan.

"They tended to be farm laborers. They were also fishermen. If they were in cities they were just sort of in the manual labor category — what today you would think of as a day laborer."

"So when you look at the people leaving Norway you do pick up quite a bit of evidence of the poor, huddled masses," she says, referring to the famous Emma Lazarus poem at the foot of the Statue of Liberty.

And although their descendants would eventually catch up to the rest of the U.S. population, it took a while. Twenty years after their arrival in the United States, the Norwegian immigrants were still making 14 percent less than native-born workers.

In other words, they shared a lot in common with many of today's immigrants from ... El Salvador, Haiti and Africa.


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mrpieceofwork
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04 Jun 2023, 10:26 am

I'm pretty sure the DPRK doesn't want capitalists infiltrating their relatively pristine country, and, as well, the DMZ serves to keep socialists out of South Korea. That would be disastrous for the west. Consider also, that SK is an occupied land, occupied by the true belligerent "regime". The west is complicit in creating the conditions that lead to those other secured borders.

Please research "The Imperial Periphery", which what the graphic is about. The west USING the rest. Both NA and AU are colonized lands, the indigenous of these lands nearly wiped out by said colonizers. Further, the US and the other western power have indeed tried to "control" Latin and South America up to very recently, but have obviously failed that/finds it better to install as much neoliberal projects as possible in place of occupation.


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04 Jun 2023, 4:22 pm

When was our border ever 'under control'?

Chief Powatan, and "King Philliip" (chief of the Pequots) tried to expel the illegal alien riff-raff way back in the 1600s.
Look how that turned out.


https://youtu.be/TTYOQ05oDOI

So (in all fairness) how does anyone expect either Trump or Biden to do any better now?