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DW_a_mom
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25 Sep 2021, 5:42 pm

Mikah wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
such a non-story


That surely raises questions, no? Why would the same establishments that would print, analyse and promote any and all Russian interference claims, no matter how flimsy and stupid, not be interested in this? You can't make the argument that it's about protecting faith in democracy when they have in recent memory printed things like "Trump is a Putin asset" "Russians hacked the election" "Trump was filmed enjoying some water sports with Russian prostitutes"

With all respect, I don't think we can have a fruitful conversation if you are not worried because you haven't heard any concern from the "right" sources... we exist across too large a divide I fear.


I didn’t search for information from any specific sources. I did an open search for ALL sources. I normally know how to draft searches that will pull up everything, left to right, so I can see who is talking about what. I found nothing. The only thing I did not do is open any single particular source like OAN to look.

Have you found in depth discussion, something beyond reposts?


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DW_a_mom
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25 Sep 2021, 6:04 pm

The impression I’ve been left with, by the way, is that the authors have tried to cast enough doubt for the die hards to feel encouraged to pursue their fraud claims, as well as for the legislature to argue for election reforms, both of which can keep their client happy enough, while trying to keep their hands clean of any clearly erroneous claims that could get them sued in a court of law, where they would have to back up conclusions with evidence. They walked an intentional line, and I can infer what doing so means. I walk that line often in my own work.


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Mikah
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26 Sep 2021, 8:34 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Have you found in depth discussion, something beyond reposts?


I'm not sure what would satisfy you.

DW_a_mom wrote:
The impression I’ve been left with, by the way, is that the authors have tried to cast enough doubt for the die hards to feel encouraged to pursue their fraud claims, as well as for the legislature to argue for election reforms, both of which can keep their client happy enough, while trying to keep their hands clean of any clearly erroneous claims that could get them sued in a court of law, where they would have to back up conclusions with evidence. They walked an intentional line, and I can infer what doing so means. I walk that line often in my own work.


https://www.scribd.com/document/5273310 ... 2421-Draft

"In the 2020 presidential election, the margin of victory was only 10,457 votes, a small fraction of the 57,734 ballots with known issues. Again, this is almost 6 times the margin of victory in the Presidential race and is multiples of the margin of victory in other races. Based on these factual findings, the election should not be certified, and the reported results are not reliable."

That's pretty strong wording for a FUD job if they hope to get out unscathed.


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Kraichgauer
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26 Sep 2021, 7:53 pm

Mikah wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Have you found in depth discussion, something beyond reposts?


I'm not sure what would satisfy you.

DW_a_mom wrote:
The impression I’ve been left with, by the way, is that the authors have tried to cast enough doubt for the die hards to feel encouraged to pursue their fraud claims, as well as for the legislature to argue for election reforms, both of which can keep their client happy enough, while trying to keep their hands clean of any clearly erroneous claims that could get them sued in a court of law, where they would have to back up conclusions with evidence. They walked an intentional line, and I can infer what doing so means. I walk that line often in my own work.


https://www.scribd.com/document/5273310 ... 2421-Draft

"In the 2020 presidential election, the margin of victory was only 10,457 votes, a small fraction of the 57,734 ballots with known issues. Again, this is almost 6 times the margin of victory in the Presidential race and is multiples of the margin of victory in other races. Based on these factual findings, the election should not be certified, and the reported results are not reliable."

That's pretty strong wording for a FUD job if they hope to get out unscathed.


Only if America chose it's Presidents by popular vote. We're still using the Electoral College, which Biden clearly won (I'm not promoting the Electoral College, as it's an archaic relic of less democratic times - - but it is what it is).


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DW_a_mom
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26 Sep 2021, 11:09 pm

Mikah wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Have you found in depth discussion, something beyond reposts?


I'm not sure what would satisfy you.

DW_a_mom wrote:
The impression I’ve been left with, by the way, is that the authors have tried to cast enough doubt for the die hards to feel encouraged to pursue their fraud claims, as well as for the legislature to argue for election reforms, both of which can keep their client happy enough, while trying to keep their hands clean of any clearly erroneous claims that could get them sued in a court of law, where they would have to back up conclusions with evidence. They walked an intentional line, and I can infer what doing so means. I walk that line often in my own work.


https://www.scribd.com/document/5273310 ... 2421-Draft

"In the 2020 presidential election, the margin of victory was only 10,457 votes, a small fraction of the 57,734 ballots with known issues. Again, this is almost 6 times the margin of victory in the Presidential race and is multiples of the margin of victory in other races. Based on these factual findings, the election should not be certified, and the reported results are not reliable."

That's pretty strong wording for a FUD job if they hope to get out unscathed.


I think it can be taken for granted that no liberal is going to accept opinions expressed in the report. It is a biased and partisan document. The company was hired to do one thing: cast doubt on the election results. It would have been shocking if they had not.

What we've seen since the election is that it is very easy to find occurrences that seem suspicious to people who are not election experts, but easily explained and understood as immaterial by those who are. This has been consistent, over and over, with respect to every single claim made.

From the little that election officials - 3/4 of whom are Republican - in Arizona have said, that is the situation with the report: the company took normal occurrences and are casting them as more suspicious than they are. As a group with no prior election history or training, and with the damming language being written as opinion not fact, it would be hard to legally hold them responsible for the misleading statement.

The analysis I'm looking for is a fact check on exactly how much impact each of the claims might realistically have had on the election.

Republicans will use this report as an excuse to pass more voting restrictions in the name of voting "integrity" (read "voter suppression" instead), to move more power from less partisan election commissions to more partisan state legislatures, and otherwise lock down future elections to come up with results that favor them. That is what all this really is about.


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Mikah
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27 Sep 2021, 4:05 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
What we've seen since the election is that it is very easy to find occurrences that seem suspicious to people who are not election experts, but easily explained and understood as immaterial by those who are. This has been consistent, over and over, with respect to every single claim made.


I don't know who told you this, but they weren't telling you the truth. The most burning questions of the 2020 election have not been answered mainly because they cannot be without widespread and deep investigation across the board, or at least in key states - investigation which is being fought tooth and nail by people who care more about keeping Trump out than they do about future elections. Off the top of my head, these questions have not been answered properly if at all:

- What is the truth behind the counting pauses in some key battlegrounds? The burst pipe excuse for Fulton County was proven false, no other explanation was given, beyond obvious BS like "there was no counting pause, the election observers and media left of their own accord".
- What is the truth behind the late night vote dumps with impossible Biden/Trump ratios? Some of them appearing during counting pauses.
- Why did Biden and the Democrats lose support across the country as a whole, except in key battlegrounds? Why did he win contrary to multiple election indicators like bellwether states/counties?
- What would the election result have been if ballots received and counted under unlawful changes made to mail-in ballot rules were removed?
- Why is Benford's law used by the US foreign office as evidence of fraud in foreign elections, but not in domestic elections?


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Kraichgauer
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27 Sep 2021, 4:23 am

Not Arizona, but related to Trump's infamy:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump ... 06097.html


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