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funeralxempire
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30 May 2021, 8:09 pm

So, first off, I'd like to ignore as much as possible the question of whether or not any of this influences the amount of responsibility the Jan 6th attackers bear. That's a whole 'nother discussion worthy of it's own focused conversation.

But, we've probably all seen lawyers associated with QAnon terrorists insisting that they're mentally ill, sometimes more broadly challenged and likening far-right media to operating like brainwashing. Most of us go on to laugh that off in that context but I'm starting to not be able to treat it like it's not a real issue.

We've discussed rates of openly disclosed mental illness in those communities, they were elevated relative to normal. Further, we're in a society that still doesn't have the most open mindset towards mental healthcare and that segment tends to include more people who are more conservative in their mindsets, including on this issue.

We've discussed how right wing media relies on methods akin to brainwashing, creating an echo chamber where reporting from outside of the bubble is dismissed as 'liberal lamestream fake news media'.

Any of us who have interacted with QAnon believers have likely had wonders about their mental health in our personal experiences.

So I guess, what I'm asking is... does the amount of political power the QAnon bloc may possess cause people to be too worried about the harm they can inflict to take time to consider that it seems like a lot of socially vulnerable, mentally ill people being taken advantage of both for simple profit but also likely for more nefarious purposes and that trying to help them should be included in whatever overall solution may be implemented?

Sorry, that's not a very concise question. :oops:


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30 May 2021, 10:02 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
But, we've probably all seen lawyers associated with QAnon terrorists insisting that they're mentally ill...

Ugh, did you see what Jake Angeli's lawyer said about him, and about ASD in general?
I'm not quoting or linking it here, because it's horribly offensive, but man, I would not want that guy defending me. I'd rather rot in jail than tolerate that kind of hatemongery.

BTW, I believe the term is "useful idiot".


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funeralxempire
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30 May 2021, 10:32 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
But, we've probably all seen lawyers associated with QAnon terrorists insisting that they're mentally ill...

Ugh, did you see what Jake Angeli's lawyer said about him, and about ASD in general?
I'm not quoting or linking it here, because it's horribly offensive, but man, I would not want that guy defending me. I'd rather rot in jail than tolerate that kind of hatemongery.

BTW, I believe the term is "useful idiot".


Obviously I saw it, I didn't want to refer to only him because he's not the only lawyer involved to suggest similar, but without the Trumpian wording.

He isn't wrong even if it's grotesque how he described it.

There are people with brain damage, and people with ASD, and people with exceptionally low IQs, and people with severe mental health issues and some portion of them don't even have any formal diagnoses. I'm not suggesting that people in any of those categories can't have legitimate political views, just that a society that doesn't take those concerns seriously is primed to have issues as a result.

Keep in mind the people who went were supported by people who didn't. People livestreamed it and got money from followers. The movement is made-up of dupes, of shills and of people who play both roles at once. Not all of them have issues that might contribute to being taken advantage of by con artists, but many do. Others are con artists themselves and want to make their buck, but then again some of those people are also true believers. Others are only casuals who reject elements but are still drawn by the fact that it's a socially welcoming environment to their own quirks, sometimes people start out that way but get drawn deeper in.

Overall though it's suggests that just simply locking them all up might not be the most appropriate solution. Dismantling it effectively will require a holistic approach that doesn't dehumanize them or brutalize them in the process.


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31 May 2021, 12:08 am

If we're being honest with ourselves everyone deep down knows a good chunk of the Trump supporter fanbase are either mentally ill or delusional to a point of having people suspect they're mentally ill.

Now granted the media does hyperbolize a lot of the Trump supporters as crazy, but even me who doesnt watch the news knows from personal experience all of the craziest and dumbest people ive met in my life personally tended to be strong Trump supporters. Heck if I had to be brutally honest I dont think ive ever met a Trump supporter in real life who came off as even decently intelligent. Most of them I met spend their time watching Alex Jones, Fox, Michael Savage, and their intelligence shows trying to have nuanced conversations on complex topics being reduced to insults and pre-school level mudslinging and theatrics.

Its actually embarrassing


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31 May 2021, 6:36 pm

As far as I can tell it seems like wing-nuts seem to have this in common, ie. they're not the most stable people. The specifics of the ideologies of course tailor what that self-selected group is or what their given forms of craziness are but I look at one of Oregon's legalization victories, ie. psilocybin mushrooms, and see that it was in reaction to an understanding that state officials see their state dealing with higher-than-average rates of mental illness and wanting to open it up to what are rapidly coming to be understood as near-miracle fixes for depression, trauma, etc. (on one hand good for them to set up an alpha for therapeutic application that other states can study, on the other hand - a lot of things about the past couple years with respect to Portland make a bit more sense in that light).

What's interesting is that there probably is a power and pedophilia problem (you'll hear it from plenty of non-Q sources), just not a biblical end-times eschatology or a 'real' David Icke rabbit hole to be found. A lot of people who've been burned by the system and can or would blame it for their problems are likely to find the demonic within it, latch on, and particularly if they're sloppy, lazy, or lacking the sophistication pin down exactly what's wrong with adult-level diagnostics they'll tend to go down new age or theistic spiritual warfare alleys.


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01 Jun 2021, 1:47 am

QAnon followers, I believe, are very low information, have associated with religious or social movements outside the mainstream and distrust everything mainstream, and come to QAnon with preexisting prejudices. Such persons are easily self-deluded. As far as mental illness playing a major part in the movement - - that's truly a frightening thought that such a large segment of the American populace have such psychological problems.


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funeralxempire
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01 Jun 2021, 2:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
QAnon followers, I believe, are very low information


Would it be fair to suggest that many are high disinformation rather than low information?

Easily self-deluded, but also easily conned by others who manage to earn their trust in some way?


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01 Jun 2021, 4:24 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
QAnon followers, I believe, are very low information


Would it be fair to suggest that many are high disinformation rather than low information?

Easily self-deluded, but also easily conned by others who manage to earn their trust in some way?


Yes, as only high disinformation/low information, self deluded people can be conned! :lol:


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funeralxempire
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01 Jun 2021, 5:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
QAnon followers, I believe, are very low information


Would it be fair to suggest that many are high disinformation rather than low information?

Easily self-deluded, but also easily conned by others who manage to earn their trust in some way?


Yes, as only high disinformation/low information, self deluded people can be conned! :lol:


So, got any proposals?


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
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01 Jun 2021, 8:27 am

QAnon, Mental Illness, & Brainwashing

Adherents of the pro-Trump conspiracy movement QAnon descended upon Dallas over Memorial Day weekend for a conference that spawned a number of viral moments which underscore both the severity of the group's beliefs and its increasingly mainstream status in some GOP circles.

• The For God & Country Patriot Roundup, which was steeped in QAnon regalia and hosted by major QAnon supporters, included appearances by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), Texas GOP Chair Allen West and former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.

• Flynn, a former three-star general who received a pardon from Trump in November for lying to the FBI had the most viral moment of the event, who responded to an audience question by stating there is "no reason" the U.S. shouldn't have a coup like the one in Myanmar in February, adding, "It should happen."

• Referencing a popular QAnon theory, former Trump attorney Sidney Powell, who helped lead his 2020 election lawsuits, discussed the baseless idea that Trump can be "reinstated" on a "new inauguration date", with President Joe Biden being "told to move out of the White House."

• Gohmert, of the the Congress's most outspoken Trump allies, reportedly used his speech to play down the Jan. 6 coup attempt -- as he has done on the House floor -- and even took a photo with a confessed Jan. 6 insurrectionist.

• Several reporters were kicked out of the event, including VICE reporter Vegas Tenold and Daily Beast reporter Will Sommer, who was seen on video being escorted out by police as a QAnon influencer mocked him as he insisted he had a ticket.  The cost of one ticket was $500 (US).

Source:
 This Forbes Article 


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01 Jun 2021, 4:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
QAnon followers, I believe, are very low information


Would it be fair to suggest that many are high disinformation rather than low information?

Easily self-deluded, but also easily conned by others who manage to earn their trust in some way?


Yes, as only high disinformation/low information, self deluded people can be conned! :lol:


So, got any proposals?


Not going to happen, but have Trump admit publicly he's a fraud, and so is QAnon.


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01 Jun 2021, 5:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:


Sorry, that's not a very concise question. :oops:


you got your point across. I have some experience with "q-tarts", and am just making a quick reply as not to forget this thread.



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02 Jun 2021, 4:18 am

funeralxempire wrote:
So I guess, what I'm asking is... does the amount of political power the QAnon bloc may possess cause people to be too worried about the harm they can inflict to take time to consider that it seems like a lot of socially vulnerable, mentally ill people being taken advantage of both for simple profit but also likely for more nefarious purposes and that trying to help them should be included in whatever overall solution may be implemented?


First of all, one of the more nefarious purposes is demonizing the so called mentally ill. Maybe I can prove it, maybe not, but I dont have time right now.

Kind of off point, but the Q that most people see is the low hanging fruit. They use more refined and personal methods on 4chan type internet forums to attract tastier fruit.

I never fell for trump or Q , but I was fooled by these same people, mostly just into thinking they were my friends, which they took advantage of.

here is an example of better fruit, but you have to look beyond the daily beasts bs. I suspect a lot of behind the scenes manipulation went on behind this.

and while I was never a fan of the Daily Beast, this s**t means WAR to me:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cynthia-a ... pping-plot

these articles tend to ignore why she had to "kidnap" her own son, and when I did some digging it looked like the gov was the only kidnappers in this story. Most readers will be so riled up by the DB's poison that they will just asume any q tart who had a child taken away deserved it.

that trying to help them should be included in whatever overall solution may be implemented?

certainly! but Im more about trying to slow down their tormentors :twisted:



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08 Jun 2021, 7:31 pm

‘QAnon Shaman’ Jacob Chansley being moved to federal prison for mental evaluation

Quote:
Accused Capitol rioter Jacob Chansley – aka the Qanon Shaman – is being moved from jail to a federal prison this week for a psychological evaluation, NBC has reported.

Mr Chansley, who infamously wandered the halls of the United States Capitol in face-paint and an animal headdress, was arrested in January on six federal charges, including violent entry and disorderly conduct. He has pleaded not guilty.

He is currently being held at the Alexandria Detention Center in Virginia, but the Justice Department has ordered him transferred to a federal prison in Colorado for a “forensic evaluation,” according to NBC’s Scott MacFarlane. He is expected to leave later this week.

Albert Watkins, Mr Chansley’s lawyer, has repeatedly used mental health arguments to defend his client. He has said Mr Chansley is autistic, and that he believed he was obeying former president Donald Trump’s orders when he entered the Capitol.

He also maintains that throughout the riot, Mr Chansley’s actions were peaceful.

“He was not violent. He did not assault. He did not steal or destroy while he was in the Capitol,” Mr Watkins told Reuters.

Last month, US District Judge Royce Lamberth ordered that a “psychological examination be conducted” on Mr Chansley, and that he be moved to a “suitable facility for a competency examination.”

If Mr Chansley’s lawyers can prove that he is not mentally competent, they may save him from serving a lengthy prison sentence, but he would likely be treated at a hospital within a federal prison.

...


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


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08 Jun 2021, 11:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
‘QAnon Shaman’ Jacob Chansley being moved to federal prison for mental evaluation

Quote:
Accused Capitol rioter Jacob Chansley – aka the Qanon Shaman – is being moved from jail to a federal prison this week for a psychological evaluation, NBC has reported.

Mr Chansley, who infamously wandered the halls of the United States Capitol in face-paint and an animal headdress, was arrested in January on six federal charges, including violent entry and disorderly conduct. He has pleaded not guilty.

He is currently being held at the Alexandria Detention Center in Virginia, but the Justice Department has ordered him transferred to a federal prison in Colorado for a “forensic evaluation,” according to NBC’s Scott MacFarlane. He is expected to leave later this week.

Albert Watkins, Mr Chansley’s lawyer, has repeatedly used mental health arguments to defend his client. He has said Mr Chansley is autistic, and that he believed he was obeying former president Donald Trump’s orders when he entered the Capitol.

He also maintains that throughout the riot, Mr Chansley’s actions were peaceful.

“He was not violent. He did not assault. He did not steal or destroy while he was in the Capitol,” Mr Watkins told Reuters.

Last month, US District Judge Royce Lamberth ordered that a “psychological examination be conducted” on Mr Chansley, and that he be moved to a “suitable facility for a competency examination.”

If Mr Chansley’s lawyers can prove that he is not mentally competent, they may save him from serving a lengthy prison sentence, but he would likely be treated at a hospital within a federal prison.

...


Autism defense, again???


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08 Jun 2021, 11:47 pm

sham man is more like it