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dorkseid
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01 Jun 2021, 12:43 pm

Can you guess whether it was Mohammed or Donald Trump who did all of the following:


Claimed to be appointed to leadership by none other than God himself, and to be the only person alive authorized to speak on God's behalf.

Is reported to have had at least 11 wives at one time, in addition to an undisclosed number of concubines.

Proclaimed to be the most morally superior person to have ever lived, as attested to by God himself.

Tortured a man for the location of his tribe's treasury and then executed him. And wedded his widow that same night.

Used his position of self-proclaimed authority to compel a woman into marrying his adopted son. But after accidently seeing her undressed, commanded his adopted son to divorce her so he could marry her himself. Following this incidence, he "received" a revelation from God that prohibited adoption and retroactively annulled all previous adoptions including his own.

Proclaimed that wives should submit to the wills and desires of their husbands, and that husbands have the right to use physical force to discipline disobedient wives.

Declared that he was sent by God to wage war on all people until they accepted his creed.




But... but... that's Islamophobic! 8-O



Fnord
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01 Jun 2021, 1:18 pm

Claimed to be appointed to leadership by none other than God himself, and to be the only person alive authorized to speak on God's behalf.  Both

Is reported to have had at least 11 wives at one time, in addition to an undisclosed number of concubines.  Mighty Moh (Trump has so far married only 3 women.)

Proclaimed to be the most morally superior person to have ever lived, as attested to by God himself.  Both

Tortured a man for the location of his tribe's treasury and then executed him. And wedded his widow that same night.  Mighty Moh

Used his position of self-proclaimed authority to compel a woman into marrying his adopted son. But after accidently seeing her undressed, commanded his adopted son to divorce her so he could marry her himself. Following this incidence, he "received" a revelation from God that prohibited adoption and retroactively annulled all previous adoptions including his own.  Mighty Moh (Although Trump did imply that he lusts after his own daughter)

Proclaimed that wives should submit to the wills and desires of their husbands, and that husbands have the right to use physical force to discipline disobedient wives.  Both

Declared that he was sent by God to wage war on all people until they accepted his creed.  Both


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aghogday
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01 Jun 2021, 1:22 pm



The Story of Jesus, Isn't Any More Palatable Than

Muhammad or Trademark God As Jesus According

To the Ghost Authors Who Wrote That Story;

And Scribes With All Their Copy Mistakes And

Intentional Changes Through the First Gutenberg

Printing Version in the 1400's; On the One Hand, Preach All Forgiving

Love; Yes, Turning The Other Cheek, Loving Our Enemies And FRiEnDS And God;

All The Meek Inheriting The Earth, And the Last Those Serving All, Are The

First in the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, Only Now Within And No Where

Else to Seek And Find;

And Then There

Is The 'Devil Jesus',

Who Changes Folks Who

Don't Properly Worship Him

Being Nice to the Homeless Person on

The Street; Yes, Changing Those Once Loyal

Sheep Into Goats And Burning Them Forever for All

Eternity In the 'Silencing Of Those Lambs' Even Worse than

Anything 'Hannibal The Cannibal' Could Come Up With in a Movie too....

There Are Lots of

Stories Where

Folks End

Up Following

The Most Despicable

Leaders;Truly By the End

of Both Books, They Both Turn Out As

'Trump And General Flynn' With A Coup Against Human

LoVE iN Just Another 'Illuminating' Gas-Lit Reality of 'Minions' With 'Despicable Leaders' Still To come...

Some of my Best, Most Loving FRiEnDS Are Both Fundamentalist Christian And Muslim too...

We View What

We See By

Who We Are

Within; Those

Women Are Love; They Come to Still Be FRiEnDS of mine...

No Matter What; They Were Spoon-Fed From Birth; Love

Persevered With Them as they are now; What i Was Raised

In 'Bible Life', Brought me Plenty of Existential Misery Till i Escaped Free...

True, Most of the Days i Read it; i Did my Best to Ignore,The 'Evil Jesus' Part too...

Generally Speaking, Folks Who Are Capable of Defending What They Believe in Do; Others Do Not...

And More

Often

Stay

Silent

Or

Just

Cry Foul....

In Some Kind

Of Ad-Hominem Attack

AS Honestly the Cognitive

Dissonance Hurts them too much...

To Face Obvious Realities of Truth,

Common Sense, And Feel of Life Bears Out As 'Realer' Now...

Why Most Folks Don't Discuss Politics And Religion, if They Wanna

Have Friends Who stick

Around...

Truth Will

Be A Very

Lonely Place, in Fuller Purview oF Light...
People Find Cognitive Dissonance Painful Indeed...
No Matter What is Spoon or Force Fed In CuLTuRE From Birth Now...



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salad
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01 Jun 2021, 1:29 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Can you guess whether it was Mohammed or Donald Trump who did all of the following:


Claimed to be appointed to leadership by none other than God himself, and to be the only person alive authorized to speak on God's behalf.

Is reported to have had at least 11 wives at one time, in addition to an undisclosed number of concubines.

Proclaimed to be the most morally superior person to have ever lived, as attested to by God himself.

Tortured a man for the location of his tribe's treasury and then executed him. And wedded his widow that same night.

Used his position of self-proclaimed authority to compel a woman into marrying his adopted son. But after accidently seeing her undressed, commanded his adopted son to divorce her so he could marry her himself. Following this incidence, he "received" a revelation from God that prohibited adoption and retroactively annulled all previous adoptions including his own.

Proclaimed that wives should submit to the wills and desires of their husbands, and that husbands have the right to use physical force to discipline disobedient wives.

Declared that he was sent by God to wage war on all people until they accepted his creed.




But... but... that's Islamophobic! 8-O


Look I get that Muhammad did morally questionable things and he wasn't the saint I, an ex-Muslim, was led to believe, but there is an inaccuracy in one of your statements. Muhammad DID NOT compel Zaid to divorce Zaynb, on the contrary in the Seerah he actually ENCOURAGED them to NOT DIVORCE and he went out of his way to pressure Zayd to stay with Zaynab.

Still you're right that Muhammad isn't the saint I thought he was, and thats why I left Islam. But he also isn't the devil you make him out to be.

For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.


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Fnord
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01 Jun 2021, 1:42 pm

salad wrote:
For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.
One of which was his obsession with telling his followers how "virtuous" he was.

Q: What do you call a 50 year old Catholic Priest who has sex with a nine year old?
A Paedophile.


Q: What do you call a 50 year old Prophet who has sex with a nine year old?
The seal of the Prophets and Allah's greatest creation.


:roll: As virtuous as a shayatin!


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aghogday
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01 Jun 2021, 1:44 pm

salad wrote:

For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.




i'd Have to See Evidence For The Assertion Muhammad Had At 1000 Virtues For Every Vice,

Considering, the Quran Is Only About 80,000 Words Long And Uses About

2,000 Words of Vocabulary;

Yet Of Course Outside

of the Quran And

His Words Attributed

To Him By Translating

His Own Illiterate Oral

Tradition That Is Reported

Received Over 23 Years; And

Took Many More Years to Put

In Actual Printing Press Versions Remaining Same;

There Are Many So-Called Second And So Forth Accounts

in Hadiths; And Many Other Forms of Art That Make Him

Likely Bigger than the Life He Actually Lived As That is

The Nature of the Beast of Story Telling; Making Men Into More Than They Are...

It Would Have Been Interesting To See What Actually Came Out of the Mouths of

Muhammad And Jesus When They Actually Lived; All We Have Is Less Than Real First Hand Accounts Still in Print...

And Of Course That Applies to Buddha, And Likely Lao Tzu, And Plato, And Other Indian Mythical Heroes too, And Etc...



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salad
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01 Jun 2021, 1:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
salad wrote:
For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.
One of which was his obsession with telling his followers how "virtuous" he was.

Q: What do you call a 50 year old Catholic Priest who has sex with a nine year old?
A Paedophile.


Q: What do you call a 50 year old Prophet who has sex with a nine year old?
The seal of the Prophets and Allah's greatest creation.


:roll: As virtuous as a shayatin!


Actually there are many Hadiths where he does the opposite, telling others he lowly he is and that he's just a man who is sent with a message.


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Fnord
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01 Jun 2021, 1:58 pm

salad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
salad wrote:
For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.
One of which was his obsession with telling his followers how "virtuous" he was.

Q: What do you call a 50 year old Catholic Priest who has sex with a nine year old?
A Paedophile.


Q: What do you call a 50 year old Prophet who has sex with a nine year old?
The seal of the Prophets and Allah's greatest creation.


:roll: As virtuous as a shayatin!
Actually there are many Hadiths where he does the opposite, telling others he lowly he is and that he's just a man who is sent with a message.
Then Mighty Moh had a problem with telling the same "truth" more than once.


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aghogday
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01 Jun 2021, 2:53 pm



Just to Be Fair And Balanced, Women Were Seen As Cattle Long Before They Got the Right to Vote, Just A Century Ago...

Yes, Seen As Cattle Getting Them Ready to Breed At Ten YearS Old For Revered Saint Augustine to Marry A 12 Year
Old Girl As Pedophiles Were The Way of the Man's World Then; No Different Overall Than the Day of Muhammad too...

From 'Professor Wiki':

"God, Grant me chastity and continence, but not yet"

"In 385, Augustine ended his relationship with his lover in order to prepare to marry a ten-year-old heiress. (He had to wait for two years because the legal age of marriage for girls was twelve.) By the time he was able to marry her, however, he had decided to become a Catholic priest and the marriage did not happen."

So-Called Saint Augustine Described His Life As A 'Sex Addict'; Not Able to Love in 'the Act';

He Projected A Cure For His 'Perverse' Leanings to

Others Sacrificing Their Balanced Reproductive

Freedoms For His Disease of Sexual Addiction;

This Is Not Uncommon in 'Matt Gaetz Life' Now or Then...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo



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dorkseid
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01 Jun 2021, 8:01 pm

Secular scholars agree that Hadeeth and Sira sources are highly unreliable and that most of them were added on later for various religious or political purposes. Given that, the presence of contradictions is expected.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with religion is that it takes something that is man made and flawed and appoints to it an undeserved level of authority. Not everything in the Bible or Quran is horrible, but the things that are are held in the highest esteem and rigorously protected from any criticism. And we can respect the roles that figures like George Washington or Abraham Lincoln played in history while still understanding that they were flawed human beings and that not everything they did was correct or deserves to be imitated. The problem with figures like Mohammed, Jesus, or Moses is held up as the highest examples of what everyone should strive for. For instance, Muslim societies can never condemn or outlaw child marriage because that would be acknowledging that their prophet did something reprehensible. I do not believe it is fair to judge a man who lived in a very different cultural context than the modern world by modern standards. I do not know to what extent, if any, someone like Mohammed could have understood why marrying a child is wrong. It is when we contextualize this act within the context that millions of people today still hold Mohammed as the highest example of morality that it becomes a problem.



Last edited by dorkseid on 01 Jun 2021, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Jun 2021, 8:02 pm

Are we talking Muhammad Ali in his prime vs. Trump in his prime, or Muhammad Ali at the age Trump is now vs. Trump now?
The first: Muhammad Ali, Trump wouldn't stand a chance.
The latter: well, Muhammad Ali was pretty frail towards the end of his life, while Trump is disturbingly fit, considering his age....it would be a very sad fight.


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dorkseid
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01 Jun 2021, 8:04 pm

I'm pretty sure that Mohammed Ali at any age could've taken down Trump on the best day of his life.



salad
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01 Jun 2021, 8:12 pm

dorkseid wrote:
Secular scholars agree that Hadeeth and Sira sources are highly unreliable and that most of them were added on later for various religious or political purposes. Given that, the presence of contradictions is expected.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with religion is that it takes something that is man made and flawed and appoints to it an undeserved level of authority. Not everything in the Bible or Quran is horrible, but the things that are are held in the highest esteem and rigorously protected from any criticism. And we can respect the roles that figures like George Washington or Abraham Lincoln played in history while still understanding that they were flawed human beings and that not everything they did was correct or deserves to be imitated. The problem with figures like Mohammed, Jesus, or Moses is held up as the highest examples of what everyone should strive for. For instance, Muslim societies can never condemn or outlaw child marriage because that would be acknowledging that their prophet did something reprehensible. I do not believe it is fair to judge a man who lived in a very different cultural context than the modern world by modern standards. I do not know to what extent, if any, someone like Mohammed could have understood why marrying a child is wrong. It is when we contextualize this act within the context that millions of people today still hold Mohammed as the highest example of morality that it becomes a problem.


The Hadeeth is actually the most reliable source of information in Islam. Secular scholars dont know what they are talking about calling it unreliable.

But I agree that the claim that Muhammad is infallible morally speaking is a major setback to the Muslim world given how many flaws of character he had that had to be codified into islamic law or else nullifying Islam's edifice by conceding the fallibility of Muhammad


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01 Jun 2021, 8:16 pm

dorkseid wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Mohammed Ali at any age could've taken down Trump on the best day of his life.


Well, Ali was suffering from Parkinson's and in a wheelchair in the last years of his life. I'm absolutely sure Trump would have not hesitated to try tip over Ali's wheelchair by bumping into it with a golf cart, which he insisted on because, you know, Ali was in a vehicle, so he should get one, too


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02 Jun 2021, 1:47 am

shlaifu wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Mohammed Ali at any age could've taken down Trump on the best day of his life.


Well, Ali was suffering from Parkinson's and in a wheelchair in the last years of his life. I'm absolutely sure Trump would have not hesitated to try tip over Ali's wheelchair by bumping into it with a golf cart, which he insisted on because, you know, Ali was in a vehicle, so he should get one, too


He wouldn't hesitate to try. Ali could still take him on his worst day with one hand tied behind his back.

Of course, Trump will insist that it was all rigged and that he actually won.



Last edited by dorkseid on 02 Jun 2021, 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

dorkseid
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02 Jun 2021, 1:52 am

salad wrote:
For every vice of Muhammad he had at least 1000 virtues that more than make up for it.


salad wrote:
The Hadeeth is actually the most reliable source of information in Islam. Secular scholars dont know what they are talking about calling it unreliable.


I'm curious about where you're getting your information from.

salad wrote:
But I agree that the claim that Muhammad is infallible morally speaking is a major setback to the Muslim world given how many flaws of character he had that had to be codified into islamic law or else nullifying Islam's edifice by conceding the fallibility of Muhammad


To be fair, that's generally the problem with most religions.