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salad
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02 Jun 2021, 1:55 pm

Im not saying there arent masterpieces in the anime community such as Hunter X Hunter, Attack on Titan, FMAB, but too much anime sucks and many are hot trash because of very obvious reasons. Very blatant sexism, lurid and shock factor edginess at the expense of subtle story telling, melodrama, fan service, over sexualization of females gratuitously, overreliance on tropes to the point of many anime being predictable, characters who tell their enemies how their powers work, and horrible uses of flashbacks.

I wish anime creators addressed the issues rampant in too many anime. The biggest thing holding a lot of anime back, especially shonen, is that many anime take inspiration from Dragon Ball Z even though that series is hot trash and notorious for bad writing. Avatar the Last Airbender isn't even an anime yet better than most anime because it doesnt do what most anime does. The protagonist is unique and funny while not falling into generic tropes of either bishonen edge lord or dumb Goku ripoff, the characters fight smart and dont tell the enemy their powers and how they work, the story uses subtlety and brilliant storytelling to flesh out deep and poignant themes and arcs, and there is no fan service nor sexism in the story since the females are all unique with compelling backstories rather than being over sexualized hentai dolls to appease male horniness like most anime does.

Anime needs to break out of the ghetto of garbage tropes if it wants to actually present itself as a respectable medium of entertainment


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Fnord
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02 Jun 2021, 2:53 pm

After reading This Article On Anime Tropes, I stopped being interested in anime.

Even the more "adult" genres of anime cannot hold my interest.


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funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2021, 2:59 pm

Fnord wrote:
After reading This Article On Anime Tropes, I stopped being interested in anime.

Even the more "adult" genres of anime cannot hold my interest.


That's like saying you don't like American cartoons. There's too much diversity to make that statement in an informed way.

There's usually a few that are likely to appeal even if not being interested makes it unlikely that you'll discover them.

There's more anime I don't like or don't care for than anime I do like, but there's definitely anime that appeals to me.

Image
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Fnord
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02 Jun 2021, 3:05 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
After reading [b]This Article On Anime Tropes, I stopped being interested in anime.  Even the more "adult" genres of anime cannot hold my interest.[/b]
That's like saying you don't like American cartoons...
I used to like American animation.  Except for a few feature-length films ("Titan A.E.") most are either preachy or full of racist/sexist innuendo.

Here is how too many male-female relationships begin in anime...


 Marshmallow Hell 


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funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2021, 3:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
After reading [b]This Article On Anime Tropes, I stopped being interested in anime.  Even the more "adult" genres of anime cannot hold my interest.[/b]
That's like saying you don't like American cartoons...
I used to like American animation.  Except for a few feature-length films ("Titan A.E.") most are either preachy or full of racist/sexist innuendo.

Here is how too many male-female relationships begin in anime...


 Marshmallow Hell 


I'm deeply familiar with TVTropes. It's worse than Wikipedia for eating hours out of one's day.

I'm also pretty familiar with criticisms of anime, many of them stand for significant portions of the artform but none of them make the entire artform unenjoyable because they all have exceptions, inversions, clever deconstructions and examples where the trope might exist but not be a problem.


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Fnord
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02 Jun 2021, 3:31 pm

Alright then, I will put it this way: I derive more enjoyment from Manga than I do from Anime.  Plots seem to rely more on character reactions than from fanservice, flashing backgrounds, or loud music.


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funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2021, 4:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Alright then, I will put it this way: I derive more enjoyment from Manga than I do from Anime.  Plots seem to rely more on character reactions than from fanservice, flashing backgrounds, or loud music.


That's fair, I don't mind stuff that's paced like Sesame Street but others mileage may vary.


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Fnord
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02 Jun 2021, 4:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Alright then, I will put it this way: I derive more enjoyment from Manga than I do from Anime.  Plots seem to rely more on character reactions than from fanservice, flashing backgrounds, or loud music.
That's fair, I don't mind stuff that's paced like Sesame Street but others mileage may vary.
Try this one:  Solo Levelling 

It starts slow, but the tension builds steadily.  Some of the combat panels are a bit chaotic, but the plot is consistent.


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funeralxempire
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02 Jun 2021, 4:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Alright then, I will put it this way: I derive more enjoyment from Manga than I do from Anime.  Plots seem to rely more on character reactions than from fanservice, flashing backgrounds, or loud music.
That's fair, I don't mind stuff that's paced like Sesame Street but others mileage may vary.
Try this one:  Solo Levelling 

It starts slow, but the tension builds steadily.  Some of the combat panels are a bit chaotic, but the plot is consistent.



I know a few manga. I've been a big fan of Vinland Saga because it's basically chambara with vikings. I've mentioned Initial D and Wangan Midnight before but there's also whatever kanjo racing manga gets posted here: http://www.pvtrunner.com/


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02 Jun 2021, 5:54 pm

If someone is going to trash anime on this site, they are going to summon me, and if criticism is not going to be valid I would go really strong. I watch a ridiculous amount of anime, if people claim that anime is all one thing, I can give 100 variations and explain the diversity, and responding to the idea that all anime is Dragon Ball Z or shounen is the type of statement I would find especially ridiculous.

I will admit that anime on average has some sexism problems and the like, which in my take is a bit of a problem either in the nature of audiences it is aiming for in wanting to be sexy, or a Japan problem where they are not super great with all subjects. You are looking at different cultures of creators between Avatar and something like Sword Art Online. But also, there is so much variation and shows I can point to for characters that won't explain their powers, deep themes and a lack of or sexism in the story that makes female characters mostly objects for male horniness.

Such as Sword Art Online was something I progressively lost hope in after a while, but it did have one particularly good arc that followed its main female lead in a way that pretty much removed the male one, and focused on her relationship with another female character devoid of sexuality and really up there among poignant themes with its fleshed out characters. I know a lot of anime has problems, which is why I spend a lot of time picking up on what new shows might do differently or better.

One show I am particularly fond of at the moment is called Super Cub, which follows an introverted teen girl that either has depression at least is in a constant state of melancholy after having no friends, family or hobbies, and on whim decides to get a motorcycle to make her school commute easier, and her life stars to light up. There is no sexuality, with gender playing no part at all, there pretty much is not any action let alone fights, of a main character who neither fits the tropes of edge lord or lovably dim. The closest I can point to are other anime that are built up around these interesting introverted and or characters suffering from depression that follow characters trying to get themselves out a hard place. Shows like March comes in like a lion, Stars Align, Otherside Picnic, Flip Flappers, Wonder Egg Priority and Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash.

Just naming shows would be boring, but I can admit to any problems in anime, while giving dozens of series that subvert it all and offer things far off from the complaints. I do agree that on average anime has some problems with gender stuff, but I would make arguments over maybe being just a bit behind, or just different from the West. There was a rather funny comment in the currently running Odd Taxi, where they talk about social trends or things that go viral, and one was foreigners talking about gender in Japan, which felt super called out. The series itself is kind of bare on remarks of gender in ways, despite having themes of things like an older man trying to lie about his financial situation to get a young girl.

And then there are anime that do things that Western stuff itself doesn't do. Such that I could gush a lot over the sex positivity of something like Interspecies Reviewers in the face of something like purity culture, although perhaps blindness in regards to things like the female desire, heteronormativity and cis normativity despite a main character being an intersex angel. And I am not seeing many things like bisexual harems from My Next Life as a Villainess in other things. Or show about literal physical rap battles of Hypnosis Mic.


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06 Jun 2021, 5:00 pm

I don't think you can generalize didn't stories of anime and combine them all into one to say they suck. That's like say all black and white movies suck or all color movies suck, or all movies shot in cinescope suck, etc.



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06 Jun 2021, 5:52 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
If someone is going to trash anime on this site...
Anime simply does not interest me.


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kraftiekortie
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06 Jun 2021, 5:56 pm

Speed racer was very good anime.



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06 Jun 2021, 7:53 pm

uhm... why are you trashing the pulp/tv stuff from another culture, on thr other side of the planet?

last time I was in japan, there was anime merchandise and anime branded stuff even in remote mountain villages.
I have a picture of Asuka-branded vegetable juice somewhere on my hard drive.
But I did notice: there were only three series and one additional character that made up 90% of all merch and branding: neon genesis evangelion, dragon ball, one piece and Hatsune Miku.

Anime mainly consisting of cheap fodderfor teenage boys, everyone investing in it is hoping to create another dragon ball/one piece. or sell images of oversexualized moe girls in a country that hasn't had a feminist revolution, only capitalist commodification. that's just the economic reality of production.
look at marvel films or star wars. they're the same repetitive trash, catering to their audience.

evangelion is proof that even an artform that puts out cheap trash has value, because sometimes a weird masterpiece gets produced that couldn't be made in a high-budget environment.... japan also had the pinku eiga which produced some of the most notable japanese new wave cinema of the 70s. but most pinku eiga were just soft porn.


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08 Jun 2021, 7:54 am

There are way better examples of good anime than the ones you mentioned if you go looking, you seem to be focused on shounen. But at the end of the day it's just a medium. All the problems you mentioned IMO have more to do with the fact that it comes out of Japanese culture (the sexism) and how creators fall prey to the same tropes within a given genre, maybe some of it is budget issues or pressure to produce on a deadline, idk. The problem anime has with exposition I think may be because it's aimed at a younger audience, I have less tolerance for exposition as I got older.

I love horror as a concept but I can't stand most horror movies because they are usually about gore and pop-up scares, rather than the psychological horror that John Carpenter's The Thing does so well. It makes me hesitant to say I'm a horror fan because I do like horror but I have a more purist definition of what makes good horror. Every genre is going to be inundated with repetitive crap and have a few gems.



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08 Jun 2021, 11:38 pm

The title is ridiculously generalized. But I understand the frustration with the crap that can be produced and is often run mainstream, this isn't anything new though. These are the same sort of complaints people have had 15+ years ago(holy crap do I feel old). So why haven't they changed? There are a variety of reasons but one that is particularly influential that most foreigners (ie us) often fail to recognize is the fact that it's not about what they are choosing to put in anime but things having to do with their very culture(this is a reason you can't entirely compare animation of different countries). For instance, when you live in a society where there is still a lot of rampant sexism you can't really expect they media produced there to be completely devoid of it, now can you?

The various genres (your traditional shounen, in point)are often built on various tropes/cliches so you're going to have some, particularly in the mainstream, no matter what to a degree. However how they are executed can make a big difference. Anime that is created based off a manga, light novel, or video game are all going to be worked and done a bit differently. But one thing you can be sure of is if they certain tropes and what not are in the originally product is probably going to be in the anime as well. In that case we again are are falling back to it being culturally and monetarily influenced of workings within Japan rather than it being "anime sucks". Of course ultimately these certain things will continue to show up in anime/manga as long as they still find a market for it.

Moving on - Despite the various garbage that is rolled out, there is ALOT of good anime out there. Maybe not "Masterpieces" but plenty of things that are well worth the watch. I once use to watch whatever I could get my hands on and I eventually found myself getting stick of the same old things over and over just with different wrapping paper. So I've gotten much more picky about what I watch; so I suggest if you're tried of what is on the mainstream, then look for what is not or try reading reviews before you watch something. Even if you're not that interested in what is being put out "this season" there are plenty of titles of the past that are still good.


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