Fragmentation: do you relate to this concept?

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BeaArthur
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14 Jun 2021, 8:54 am

Thanks for the information, XSara.

I'm glad to see that autistic cognition is receiving scientific study; but it's clear from the source articles that "more research is needed."

Personally, I've always been very smart in objective terms, but patchy in terms of actual performance. I failed to qualify after training in a call center because I just could not wrap my head around one process; meanwhile other people sailed through.

And it embarrasses me to admit it, but I frequently do process the appearance of a new person by fragments (what color is their shirt? do they have bushy eyebrows?) which results in me not being very good at recognizing them.


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Joe90
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14 Jun 2021, 8:59 am

I still don't understand what it means even after reading the posts in this thread.


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BeaArthur
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14 Jun 2021, 9:36 am

Then read the articles.


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Edna3362
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14 Jun 2021, 9:45 am

Joe90 wrote:
I still don't understand what it means even after reading the posts in this thread.

Fragmentation as an example;

It's like consciously seeing "32 pieces of unused red headed match sticks on a plain beige carpet floor, in a room, alone, with one wooden chair and a long cream sofa, illuminated with white yet bright lighting, while standing up right and gazing down with an angled neck, with arms free, with the left shoe tighter than the right..." The rest can go way longer and can go on with other thoughts whether or not those matchsticks are a part of some mess.

Instead of just the generalized "seeing match sticks on the living room floor" and while "assumed someone made a mess, playing puzzles with it or something (context dependent memory)" with everything else (irrelevant details) is 'auto'.


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Joe90
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14 Jun 2021, 10:55 am

I for one don't believe an NT person looks at a room any differently from an autistic person really.


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BeaArthur
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14 Jun 2021, 12:15 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I for one don't believe an NT person looks at a room any differently from an autistic person really.

Based on what evidence or reasoning?


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Edna3362
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14 Jun 2021, 12:39 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I for one don't believe an NT person looks at a room any differently from an autistic person really.

There's a huge difference between vision (involving colors and shapes) from visual processing (wholes and pieces, depth).


Anyone can see and look the same.
But not everyone can perceive and judge the same way.


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Dear_one
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14 Jun 2021, 12:57 pm

Visual processing involves a great deal of memory work. When you "see" something, you are not getting a lot of new data through the pipe. A familiar scene can appear completely from memory. My friend has always turned at the same corner, and a store there was slowly falling to ruin. However, when it was burned, he heard the news, but passed it several times before deliberately focussing on the remains to re-program his head. It had still looked the same to his "peripheral vision."
When Columbus arrived in the West Indies, people couldn't even see his ships in previously empty bays. The white strangers were a total mystery until a Shaman worked very hard with his eyes.



IsabellaLinton
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14 Jun 2021, 1:07 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I for one don't believe an NT person looks at a room any differently from an autistic person really.


My vision is normal. I see the whole room, and I can appreciate the room as a whole looking nice or messy or whatever. The difference is that all of that visual input overwhelms me, even if it's a beautiful tidy minimalist space. Instead of seeing the room as one "thing", or maybe a couple of "things" (nice room, nice sofa, interesting artwork), my brain feels like it's seeing tens of thousands of pieces of information. All the colours, textures, shapes, stitch patterns, balance of decor, a crumb on the table, etc - plus all the associated thoughts and feelings and flashbacks of each particular thing. This doesn't just pertain to visual information but also sounds, smells, textures, etc., happening all at once.

I notice every individual detail.

It's kind of like what is described in these videos. I don't actually "see" the world like in this video, but this is the amount of input / sensory overload / processing stress that I would feel:





I don't know if this is exactly what the OP meant by fragmentation, but that's how the world feels for me. ^ Add in details like the fact my tag might be itchy, I'm possibly having a trauma flashback, and I would also have the physical stressors of cognitive overwhelm.



kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2021, 1:33 pm

I don't tend to remember things in a room, after I leave the room. Except for things which were really prominent in the room.

If you take a test to become a police officer, you have to remember EVERYTHING that was in the room presented in the test, after you go onto the page after the "room."



Joe90
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14 Jun 2021, 4:15 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I for one don't believe an NT person looks at a room any differently from an autistic person really.

Based on what evidence or reasoning?


Because in another thread on another day someone's going to ask or say the exact opposite; NTs noticing specific things in a room while autistics notice just the whole room and everyone will agree. I often see that happen a lot here. Like with the rules thing. One thread said NTs are the ones to "rebel" against rules and autistics are the ones more likely to follow the rules, then in another thread it was the exact opposite.

I know a room can seem brighter or noisier to an autistic than to an NT, but it doesn't take an autistic to notice something first or whatever.


This discussion reminds me very much of when I went on a course thing while I was unemployed, I was in a group of about 20 other people who were more than likely neurotypicals of around the same age as me, and as part of one of the exercises was to actually go into a room one at a time and say what the first thing we saw was in the room. Some people said the cupboard, one or two said a mop bucket in the corner, others said the sink, and a couple even said the light on the ceiling (even though the lights weren't on, because it was daytime). I noticed the sink first because it was right opposite the door.

I'm not saying that proves anything but people with or without an ASD don't always see the same thing.


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Edna3362
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14 Jun 2021, 4:44 pm

^^ Why limit to vision/sight?

Where's the rest of the senses?


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14 Jun 2021, 5:57 pm

I do relate but I always thought it was because I think slow. Given enough time, I see everything, I even see more than others and I see the meaning of things better that most.



autisticelders
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16 Jun 2021, 4:27 am

seems like a generalized description of many forms of sensory processing struggles. If my senses only process bits and pieces of any experience, how else would my perception be expressed but as the bits and pieces or fragments that do get through my neurology to register in my brain or become lodged in my memory. Because I hear or see something does not mean that all of it will be registered as information in my mind. A great deal of it gets lost in transit. "short term memory" is not really memory at all if the info never hits the registry . I have almost perfect recall of anything I read, but very poor recall of things seen or heard in 'real time".