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XenopusMan
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12 Jun 2021, 9:02 pm

When someone with autism has an uneven IQ profile, how can it be properly determined what their general level of cognitive functioning is?

For example, if someone has a Verbal Comprehension Index in the 130s and an average Perceptual Reasoning Index, they might have a GAI in the 120s, but would that actually accurately represent their overall cognitive functioning? Especially since the two scores are so far apart? Or would the FSIQ with working memory and processing speed included be more accurate, even if those were impaired? Or would it be more accurate to look at each index score separately and say that the person is high in some areas of cognitive ability and average or low in others?

This has confused me as someone who’s FSIQ and GAI are both uninterpretable. I’ve always wanted to know what my actual general range of cognitive functioning actually is.



timf
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13 Jun 2021, 8:20 am

You may be expecting too much precision from measurement tools that can only approximate what is in itself an aggregate phenomena.

Consider only two elements, speed and pattern recognition. Two people might be measured the same but each higher than the other in a different category.

Cognition is the result of many processes and as such one should expect variations. This is also to be expected when one considers the difficulty of constructing a measurement system that attempts to cover so many different processes.

It might be similar to using a yardstick to measure height when the yardstick can stretch +/- two inches. You could expect an indication but not precision.



firemonkey
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13 Jun 2021, 12:38 pm

http://antjuanfinch.com/pdit has a scoring method.


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XenopusMan
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13 Jun 2021, 3:41 pm

firemonkey wrote:
http://antjuanfinch.com/pdit has a scoring method.


Lol well according to that test I’m very smart indeed. Which makes me question its validity. What makes you think it’s valid, just out of curiosity?



firemonkey
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14 Jun 2021, 2:40 am

It was just a test that I came across awhile ago . I was thinking more of the formula used to calculate IQ. As for doubting its validity because it says you're very smart; is that a regular thing with you? If so 'Imposter syndrome' springs to mind. I'd say more than a few of us here have experienced that, and may still experience that.

An interview with the test creator: https://in-sightjournal.com/2021/01/15/finch-1/


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magz
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14 Jun 2021, 3:49 am

Uneven IQ profile means that your "overall cognitive functioning" differs by area.
In this case, the concept of "intelectual level" is pretty useless as your intelect is not - pun intended - level.


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autisticelders
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14 Jun 2021, 4:04 am

Uneven profile in testing is one of the very strong indicators of autism that is used to diagnose.
At the time I had my profile done, I was super high in some areas and miserably low in others.

The diagnosing psychologist said that this is a hallmark of uneven neurological development and indicates autism clearly to those who know that.
He went on to explain that neurological profiles in "NT" persons was sort of rolling, with even or close scores throughout the test, but that with autism, scores tend to be super high in some areas and super low in others, more a peaks and valleys thing.

This made a lot of sense to me.

Our neurology is super strong in some areas and super weak in others, and is due to neurological development being different in each of us from "standard equipment". So seeing it on the graph/chart in testing profiles is simply one more tool to learn more about our own strengths and weaknesses.

I was shocked to learn my visual processing was 25th percentile and my audio processing was only 35th... but it made great sense that I did not rely on those senses to understand the world as much as I relied on my ability to read and write, which is mostly unimpaired.

I scored really high on word comprehension and usage.

Hope you find a way to use the test results for self understanding.

I found answers to so many "why" questions. Now I know how come I always got in trouble for "not paying attention"... I simply could not absorb and process anything in real time, such as lectures, videos, movies, demonstrations, etc.

It was not that I did not pay attention, it was my audio and visual processing being so slow that I simply did not "get the message". Once I could read and write to do my schoolwork, I did fine. Maybe you will discover an answer to some "whys" too if you think on it for a while. Best wishes



firemonkey
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14 Jun 2021, 4:27 am

My 1st post was based on the possibility that the gap between the various components mentioned was in a 'grey area re an 'Uneven cognitive profile'. If not then Magz's reply is right on the button.As is autisticelders.


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XenopusMan
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14 Jun 2021, 10:08 am

firemonkey wrote:
My 1st post was based on the possibility that the gap between the various components mentioned was in a 'grey area re an 'Uneven cognitive profile'. If not then Magz's reply is right on the button.As is autisticelders.


What does gray area mean in this context.

And I definitely have imposter syndrome, it’s just that I did not expect to score that high, considering my grades at school and on standardized tests, but I could see in the scoring chart that I scored higher than over 98% percent of people that took the PDIT, which I suppose isn’t meaningless but it surprised me, is all.



firemonkey
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14 Jun 2021, 12:02 pm

I've heard that the gap required for an uneven profile is ≥ 15, though I've heard >23 mentioned too. Sometimes, for various reasons, people underperform at school.
This is a free test by a member of the IQexams facebook group.


https://www.classmarker.com/online-test ... _T-iTAohR0

36 questions in 30 minutes.

Theoretical and preliminary norm

RWRSAT Norms ~ 2nd revision
Dr. Greg A. Grove, Ph.D.
Raw Scale Score
36 224
35 220
34 216
33 212
32 209
31 205
30 201
29 197
28 193
27 190
26 186
25 182
24 179
23 175
22 171
21 167
20 164
19 160
18 156
17 152
16 149
15 145
14 141
13 137
12 134
11 130
10 126
09 122
08 119
07 115
06 111
05 107
04 104
03 100


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XenopusMan
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14 Jun 2021, 5:01 pm

firemonkey wrote:
I've heard that the gap required for an uneven profile is ≥ 15, though I've heard >23 mentioned too. Sometimes, for various reasons, people underperform at school.
This is a free test by a member of the IQexams facebook group.


https://www.classmarker.com/online-test ... _T-iTAohR0

36 questions in 30 minutes.

Theoretical and preliminary norm

RWRSAT Norms ~ 2nd revision
Dr. Greg A. Grove, Ph.D.
Raw Scale Score
36 224
35 220
34 216
33 212
32 209
31 205
30 201
29 197
28 193
27 190
26 186
25 182
24 179
23 175
22 171
21 167
20 164
19 160
18 156
17 152
16 149
15 145
14 141
13 137
12 134
11 130
10 126
09 122
08 119
07 115
06 111
05 107
04 104
03 100


Screw it, I guess I’m smart (Assuming that 134 on this test is as rare as 134 on a regular IQ test).

Time to start trying harder at school...



firemonkey
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14 Jun 2021, 5:41 pm

The test was normed by Dr Grove who's worked as a psychometrician. I got 14 right which gave a 140 IQ with the 1st preliminary norm. I said the norm was inflated, because it's about 1SD above my avg for such tests. I expected the IQ to go down with the second preliminary norm-it didn't.

If I just struck lucky rather than the test having an inflated norm, then your 134 is genuinely a very good score. A Mensa level score.


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XenopusMan
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14 Jun 2021, 6:59 pm

firemonkey wrote:
The test was normed by Dr Grove who's worked as a psychometrician. I got 14 right which gave a 140 IQ with the 1st preliminary norm. I said the norm was inflated, because it's about 1SD above my avg for such tests. I expected the IQ to go down with the second preliminary norm-it didn't.

If I just struck lucky rather than the test having an inflated norm, then your 134 is genuinely a very good score. A Mensa level score.


Ha well I suppose I’ll just go with my General Ability Index as my IQ score from this point forth, 123. Which is pretty good but not Mensa-level.



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15 Jun 2021, 11:07 am

The GAI is literally just general. When IQ tests results start having very pronounced peaks and troughs they use the GAI as a way of averaging them out into something more accurate. I had a big difference in my actual IQ and GAI due to slow processing speed, dyslexia and dyscalculia. The psychologist noted that given extra time to deal with a task my higher GAI would kick in rather than my actual IQ.

I imagine a GAI might go both ways in comparison to actual IQ.



firemonkey
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15 Jun 2021, 5:18 pm

The only proctored test I remember doing was in 1972. When I was 15. I was never told the result. I tried to get it decades later, but it wasn't available.

There were these remarks from my father last year:

Quote:
Incidentally, your intelligence tests as a child tended to come out around the 150 level.
Quote:
I did mean pre-teeanger. I cannot remember exactly when but I think Mima and I used some test system in San Francisco.. Anyway, I have always thought of you ins !47 or so.
. That closely matches the average from high range IQ tests. There's a definite gap between verbal and spatial intelligence, but it's less than I had thought it was. I'm far better at pattern recognition than mental rotation.

I was not an academic high flyer. I underachieved.There was no such thing as 2e in the early 1960s to mid 1970s. Thus no support.


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Fenn
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15 Jun 2021, 5:39 pm

When I got my IQ score back I spent a lot of time looking at each subtest and googling.

Each subtest measures (or tries to measure) a specific concept associated with the idea of "intelligence".

My subtest were uneven and my doc said this indicated ADHD to him. Specifically my Working Memory and Processing Speed (Rote Processing) were much lower than my other scores.

I later learned that this indicated Executive Function challenges of a specific kind.

EF does correlate with ADHD. Also with ASD.

If you understand which subtests you scored high in and which subtest you scored low in and can get an idea of what kind of real-world tasks are similar it should give you good idea where your cognitive strengths and weaknesses are.

Here is an example: there is a kind of test they give to kids in school around the age of 9 to 11 years of age where they are supposed to solve a large number of one digit multiplication problems as "fast as possible". The scoring has to do with the number of correct answers you give in a set amount of time. This "real world" test maps very well with your score on rote processing on your IQ.

If I recall it is kind of hard to find detailed description of the IQ tests. I never did find out if this has anything to do with secrecy, or "intellectual property" or fear of cheating. If you keep digging you can find what you are looking for. A good reference librarian could help.

Of course spending this kind of time trying to understand each little part of the test could also be "persistent preoccupation with parts of objects" - it could be OCD too.
:D


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