Page 3 of 4 [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

BeaArthur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 5,798

17 Jun 2021, 10:24 am

OK, not going to debate the burpee theory of depression any further.

Discerning readers may decide on their own whose perspective to adopt.


_________________
A finger in every pie.


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 10:39 am

Please stop being childish and using derogatory dismissive language. This is not "burpee theory of depression".

My opinion is logical conclusion based on neuroscience, biochemistry, psychology, fully concordant with the hierarchy of natural systems of biopsychosocial model.

If you don't like to debate approaches based on real scientific evidence, I would guess you will be happy to talk about some made up BS theories, like Beck's cognitive theory of depression.

Yes, I really hope discerning readers would decide on their own whose perspective to adopt.

For anyone interested, my very simple, actionable and effective approach: "Sleeping with open window, 1 minute of intense burpees, 15 minutes of direct sunlight and 2 eggs a day keeps depression away", 90% of effect in prevention of depression from like 1% effort. It gives me mental power and motivation to deal with all my problems and cover all my social, emotional, creative needs.

For stupid people who would pick on specific words instead of general approach, I'll repeat again, this is not about specifically burpees, it's about physiological effects, if you can't do burpees, be intentional about achieving the same effects. This is no about eggs, if you are allergic to eggs or something, be intentional about consuming proteins, especially tryptophan. This is not about keeping window open, this is about making sure carbon dioxide level in your room is not too high, if you can't open window or it's too cold where you live, just be intentional about air quality.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

17 Jun 2021, 11:26 am

badRobot wrote:
My opinion is logical conclusion based on neuroscience, biochemistry, psychology, fully concordant with the hierarchy of natural systems of biopsychosocial model.

If you don't like to debate approaches based on real scientific evidence, I would guess you will be happy to talk about some made up BS theories, like Beck's cognitive theory of depression.
Then provide links to real scientific articles containing real scientific evidence backing your claims.

Also, Bea: It's not a good idea to post debate in The Haven. No, it doesn't make it more likely to be read by depressed users - they tend to stick to their own The Haven threads. It only creates a chaotic situation with the rules.
If you want it read by depressed users, post a link to this discussion in their respective threads.
The discussion would be appropriate in Health & Fitness or in Bipolar & other conditions.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 11:39 am

magz wrote:
badRobot wrote:
My opinion is logical conclusion based on neuroscience, biochemistry, psychology, fully concordant with the hierarchy of natural systems of biopsychosocial model.

If you don't like to debate approaches based on real scientific evidence, I would guess you will be happy to talk about some made up BS theories, like Beck's cognitive theory of depression.
Then provide links to real scientific articles containing real scientific evidence backing your claims.


Why bother? To win argument? When I quote some reasoning from publications OP just says " this is meaningless mumbo-jumbo". This is lost cause.

If you are interested in your own health, you can google the same publications and articles like this one in like 5 seconds this all first page of results in google.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

17 Jun 2021, 11:49 am

badRobot wrote:
magz wrote:
badRobot wrote:
My opinion is logical conclusion based on neuroscience, biochemistry, psychology, fully concordant with the hierarchy of natural systems of biopsychosocial model.  If you don't like to debate approaches based on real scientific evidence, I would guess you will be happy to talk about some made up BS theories, like Beck's cognitive theory of depression.
Then provide links to real scientific articles containing real scientific evidence backing your claims.
Why bother? To win argument?
No, to convince others that your claims are valid.
badRobot wrote:
When I quote some reasoning from publications OP just says " this is meaningless mumbo-jumbo". This is lost cause.
The only lost cause is the one you surrender.  Linking to the publications from which you cite will make it easier for others to follow your line of reasoning, and possibly reach the same conclusions as you.
badRobot wrote:
If you are interested in your own health, you can google the same publications and articles like this one in like 5 seconds this all first page of results in google.
I did, and the disclaimer reads:
Quote:
While emerging research continues to stack up, it's important to note that the exact nature and extent of the role of exercise for clinical treatment of depression have yet to have been fully elucidated or agreed upon.
So it seems that while exercise may help alleviate depression for some, it will not work for others.  See?  That was not so hard, was it?


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 12:04 pm

Fnord wrote:
Quote:
While emerging research continues to stack up, it's important to note that the exact nature and extent of the role of exercise for clinical treatment of depression have yet to have been fully elucidated or agreed upon.
So it seems that while exercise may help alleviate depression for some, it will not work for others.  See?  That was not so hard, was it?


Do you understand what legal disclaimers are for? Do you understand legalities of medical advise? Do you understand why CBT is still used by practitioners, while there is scientific evidence of it not working as treatment of depression?

Do you understand how scientific method works? There never will be unanimous agreement about anything. There is no agreement even about definitions of clinical depression and MDD.

There are mechanistic studies of biochemical processes, if you look into it, you will understand there is no way around it., our body needs physical activity, just like it needs water, food and sunlight.

What is your point even? Argument for the sake of argument?

If anyone wants to get rid of depression, this approach is a low risk, low effort thing. Being physically active will not harm you, eating healthier will not harm you, 15 minutes of sunlight will not harm you, breathing clean air will not harm you. Best case scenario, it will eliminate your depression, worst case scenario it will improve your physical health.

While I believe CBT is useless BS, I do not recommend people to stop other therapies and medications and focus only on these things.

With this ratio of potential benefits/risks/effort there is nothing to argue against. This is meaningless and useless argument.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

17 Jun 2021, 12:18 pm

No one here claims human body doesn't need physical activity to remain healthy.

However, none of the scientific papers I've seen so far claimed exercise would prevent "90% of depression" or anything like that.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 12:22 pm

magz wrote:
No one here claims human body doesn't need physical activity to remain healthy.

However, none of the scientific papers I've seen so far claimed exercise would prevent "90% of depression" or anything like that.


And who claimed exercise would prevent "90% of depression"? Definitely not me. There are several factors in my checklist.

What the point? Why do you argue? Why do you make up BS I didn't say and argue against it? What is wrong with you?

Again, with this ratio of potential benefits/risks/effort of my approach there is nothing to argue against. This is meaningless and useless argument. I don't understand all the rejection and denial.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

17 Jun 2021, 12:28 pm

I have noticed a few members who seem to equate "some" with "all", "studies suggest" with "research proves", and "anomaly" with "every instance".  While I suspect it is an aspie thing, it may also be that some people feel uncomfortable with anything that falls short of absolute.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 12:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have noticed a few members who seem to equate "some" with "all", "studies suggest" with "research proves", and "anomaly" with "every instance".  While I suspect it is an aspie thing, it may also be that some people feel uncomfortable with anything that falls short of absolute.


Yes, I've noticed them too. I say something like "Intense physical activity downregulates stress and improves tryptophan metabolism and reduces level of quinolinic acid in the brain" and they equate it to "Physical activity is all you need to completely cure depression". Aren't some people stupid?



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

17 Jun 2021, 12:38 pm

Ok, not just exercise.

badRobot wrote:
For anyone interested, my very simple, actionable and effective approach: "Sleeping with open window, 1 minute of intense burpees, 15 minutes of direct sunlight and 2 eggs a day keeps depression away", 90% of effect in prevention of depression from like 1% effort.
I believe it works for you and as long as you say it as sharing your experience, I believe you.

However, when I see anyone saying "it's science", there's a little red light in my brain that says [citation needed] and I start asking for the citation.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

17 Jun 2021, 12:42 pm

badRobot wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have noticed a few members who seem to equate "some" with "all", "studies suggest" with "research proves", and "anomaly" with "every instance".  While I suspect it is an aspie thing, it may also be that some people feel uncomfortable with anything that falls short of absolute.
Yes, I've noticed them too. I say something like "Intense physical activity downregulates stress and improves tryptophan metabolism and reduces level of quinolinic acid in the brain" and they equate it to "Physical activity is all you need to completely cure depression". Aren't some people stupid?
No ... but there are some people who think writers mean "for all people" if they do not include "for some people" in a declarative statement instead.

:wink: See what I did there?


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

17 Jun 2021, 12:51 pm

Fnord wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have noticed a few members who seem to equate "some" with "all", "studies suggest" with "research proves", and "anomaly" with "every instance".  While I suspect it is an aspie thing, it may also be that some people feel uncomfortable with anything that falls short of absolute.
Yes, I've noticed them too. I say something like "Intense physical activity downregulates stress and improves tryptophan metabolism and reduces level of quinolinic acid in the brain" and they equate it to "Physical activity is all you need to completely cure depression". Aren't some people stupid?
No ... but there are some people who think writers mean "for all people" if they do not include "for some people" in a declarative statement instead.

:wink: See what I did there?


Yes, I see what you did. You replied with meaningless argument for the sake of argument again. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

17 Jun 2021, 12:52 pm

magz wrote:
... when I see anyone saying "it's science", there's a little red light in my brain that says [citation needed] and I start asking for the citation.
Talk to the hand...
Image


:wink:


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

17 Jun 2021, 12:55 pm

In the military, I'd work a 12 hour shift at my physically intensive job, then go run 10 miles.

I still suffered depression.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

17 Jun 2021, 12:56 pm

badRobot wrote:
Fnord wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have noticed a few members who seem to equate "some" with "all", "studies suggest" with "research proves", and "anomaly" with "every instance".  While I suspect it is an aspie thing, it may also be that some people feel uncomfortable with anything that falls short of absolute.
Yes, I've noticed them too. I say something like "Intense physical activity downregulates stress and improves tryptophan metabolism and reduces level of quinolinic acid in the brain" and they equate it to "Physical activity is all you need to completely cure depression". Aren't some people stupid?
No ... but there are some people who think writers mean "for all people" if they do not include "for some people" in a declarative statement instead.

:wink: See what I did there?


Yes, I see what you did. You replied with meaningless argument for the sake of argument again. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
My points are: (1) The fact that some people do not "get" what you tell them does not mean they are "stupid"; (2) some people assume default conditions unless qualifiers are explicitly stated, and this also does not make them "stupid"; and (3) the fact that you neither understand nor agree with what someone else says does not make what they are saying "pointless".


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.