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TheRobotLives
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02 Jul 2021, 8:09 pm

salad wrote:
"Only an idiot could deny God after seeing such natural beauty"

It's called the Teleological argument for God, which incorporates “telos,” the Greek word for “goal” or “purpose.”
https://iep.utm.edu/design/


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shlaifu
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02 Jul 2021, 8:29 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
What blows my mind is how perfectly everything in nature combines to perpetuate itself.
They say it's all just evolution and natural selection, but is that really it?
Is that why some plants know they need thorns to keep nuisances away? Why some plants know they need poisons to protect themselves? Why some plants use colors, shapes, and smells to attract or repel animals and insects? Why some plants know that if they make their fruit delicious, animals will eat it and spread the seed further away? Why plants have pollen so that insects will spread it to other plants to help them reproduce? Is that why maple trees "evolved" to have propeller shaped seeds so that they would fly further?
Look at the eucalyptus, it practically sets itself on fire to reproduce.

Idunno, I could go on, but to me, it all seems too coincidental to be an accident.


there are coincidences, but most things are advantageous under certain circumstances.
however, a plant doesn't decide to grow thorns as much as I don't decide to grow t-cells, or have skin ph that allows lactic acid bacteria and yeasts to live on my body and consume skin excretions - and to such an extent that most funguses don't have enough to eat so they starve. me and my skin bacteria live in symbiosis. we evolved together, and that's why we fit together so well. it's called sympoiesis. and because everything evolved *together*, everything somewhat fits together.

I say somewhat because not all traits were selected for. some random mutations just didn't create any disadvantage, so there was no selection pressure that would kill off the bearer of those traits. and there's also spandrils: side effects of mutations, in which the actual mutation proved to increase procreation, so the side effect stayed around as well.
there's *a lot* of just meaningless stuff in nature, that just wasn't doing any harm either.


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bee33
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02 Jul 2021, 11:05 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
What blows my mind is how perfectly everything in nature combines to perpetuate itself.
They say it's all just evolution and natural selection, but is that really it?
Is that why some plants know they need thorns to keep nuisances away? Why some plants know they need poisons to protect themselves? Why some plants use colors, shapes, and smells to attract or repel animals and insects? Why some plants know that if they make their fruit delicious, animals will eat it and spread the seed further away? Why plants have pollen so that insects will spread it to other plants to help them reproduce? Is that why maple trees "evolved" to have propeller shaped seeds so that they would fly further?
Look at the eucalyptus, it practically sets itself on fire to reproduce.

Idunno, I could go on, but to me, it all seems too coincidental to be an accident.

No one has ever said that evolution was an accident. It is a process that has taken many millennia to arrive at the organisms and ecosystems we have now, and it is ongoing. Small changes that occur over generations determine what individuals will survive and reproduce, and those changes persist in future generations while others fall away. That is how evolution works. There is no active role played by those individuals. (It doesn't make sense to say that plants "know" anything, or that they are intentionally preserving certain traits.)

This thinking is very dangerous, because it is setting yourself up as having a perspective that has the same validity as that of scientists whose life work it is to study these matters. They have already answered these questions. Our job as non-experts is to inform ourselves, not to come up with unfounded theories that have already been debunked.



aghogday
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03 Jul 2021, 11:57 am



Relatively SPeaKinG, The
Real Magic is Humans Have
The Ability to Co-Create THeir

Own Realities

With Enough

Practice; What one

May Metaphor NoW As

Heaven or HeLL ON EartH

With Enough Proficiency

The Whole Nature oF iT Is

Well Beyond Anything As Small

As A Three Letter Song That Traps

A Tongue on the Roof of A Mouth...

Evidence on Demand of Course

At Will Of True iMaGiNaTioN

LiVinG Love Of

Creativity

Still Springing

Green At 61 Years-Old;

Meanwhile, Some Folks With

No Living Magic Are Rotting in

A World of Illusion in Material Reductionistic

Delusions That Are Just Another Path to Nowhere Now Much at ALL...

i Surely Understand

as i Traveled

That Other

Stairway

Away From

What is Possible

For Human Potential too...

Shall i make a List, An Empirical

One That Shows What is Possible; Already

Did it, Now the Rest is Just For Fun Winging By

Feather Wind, No Worries Baby, Fear Takes Most all Good
Things in Life Away; And A Placebo Effect is Often Limited by a
Lack of Belief of What is Possible That Hasn't Been Achieved Before...

The Past
Does Not

Limit the

Future Anymore
Than We Do Now

As The Past And Future
is Just Illusion; Now is Forevermore Real

Without All the Illusions of Time, Distance,
Space, And Matter; Oh to Do 'Neo' For Real HeHe...

Anyway A Scientist, Cold At HeART too, i'll Keep An Empirical
Record Going of What Heaven on Earth is For me at Least for Real Now...

God is Nothing Yet A Three Letter Song That Traps A Tongue on a Roof of a Mouth...

Nature is WHeRE

It's At ALL;

A Life

Time
Forevernow

of Contemplation

Yes Meditation to
Achieve What's Never
Been Seen and Done Before...

Meanwhile, Folks Debate WHeRE is God, HAha...

Just A Frigging Tongue Stuck on a Roof of A Mouth;

At Least 'Allah' Escapes that PriSon of 'Mouth', HeHe...

Wings of Birds...

Fur of
Animals...

Climbing...

Are So Much

More Than A Frigging

Word Trapped on a Roof of Mouth...

In Other Words, Nature Materially Reduced Smaller Than All...

All of Nature is Proof Of ALL, So Far Beyond A Song Trapped on a Roof of a Mouth...

Or in A Robe, Or in A Chalice, With No Substance; or A Brick And Mortar Temple With No LoVE iNSide

The Building Now...

Have Ya Ever

Visited A

Place

Where Folks

Divide ALL into

Pieces And Lose the ALL...

It's Really Sad... Sad As A Song
Trapped on A Roof of a Mouth...

Yes Nature Is Proof of How Small All
Human Words Are Most Definitely Abstract
Constructs Trapped As Songs on Roofs of Mouths...

Metaphors

Are Forms

Essence

Is

What
We Breathe

For Real Yes Nature Now...

Some Folks Live Life Like a 'Living

Orgasm'; Others Just 'Flatworms' in Soils

Aerating Soils So Living Orgasms May Eat What Rises Green...

Yawn... It's Kinda Like 'The Folks' Who Invented the Internet So Wings Will Soar...

It all
Fits

Together,

'The Puzzle',

From Ocean View...

Water Wave Whole Field

Particle Wave All That Jazz

As Essence Breathes LiVinG Orgasm Whole Indeed...

And Again That's Real; Look It Up; 'Frission' VarieS on

Make and Model of Vehicle and Vessel Expressing ALL....

And Science Shows Closed Minded Folks Rarely Get A
Glimpse of Heaven On EartH Divine For Real; Oh to Materially
Reduce Heaven Out of Autotelic Flow and Frission into Nothing @ALL

Sad As
A "Trump

Soul MeME" LoSinG iT ALL...

Baby, This iS A Whole lot More Than

Just 'Seeing' Parts of Nature as Attractive...

A Whole Lot More in Terms of A Whole Lot ALL...
Anyway, This is Just A Frigging Poem; Do the Research,

Many of the Metaphors Old Religions Use Do Reflect the
Essence of What is Greater For the Human Experience Now...

Satori, Samadhi, Prana, Chi, Ki, Ka, Kundalini Rising, Tao, Atman,
Is All Where This Autotelic Flow With Copious Amounts of Frission Is

And Other Unlimited Metaphors

That Just Relate Basically

A Similar Path

To the Bliss and

Real Nirvana of

Existence Now;

This Kingdom

And Or

Queendom

Of Heaven

Within Now for
Real; Yes Baby,

A Really Great

Creative Holy
And Sacred Spirit

Real Independence
Day Forever Within Now
Yet In This Case Independence

Means One With ALL Free...
FRiEnDS With Nature's
GravitY iN Balance

Winning

Karma

At the

Play of Existence

All Around in Balance...

Yeah, i Know,

All i Did is

Used to Know too...

Sweet Spot Tween

Apathy And Anxiety

For Real Now i Do And Truly
BREaTHE Nature Loving Fearless
FREE ALWaYS Balancing Now For REAL.

Basically, This All Boils Down And Ices Up to
IS However A Person May Define That 3 Letter
Word That Most Often Gets Trapped on the Roofs

Of Individual

Mouths

With Limited

Definitions; It's Worth

Noting There Are No Limits
With All Other Than More Now

For All, No Duh, Subsumes All Smaller Gods
And Definitely Little Bitty Humans And Their Words Including ALL;

Alltheist

It's Most

Definitely

Seeing NaTuRE ALL As God
Best Way NoW to Get BacK iN
Touch With This God of Nature...

May Be to Discard All Cultural Clothes/Tools
And God ALL Yes Forget You Were Ever Separate...

God Yes, So Ironic As That is Exactly What
Anti-(God)-Nature Parts of So Many Desert
SCaRCiTY Tribal Origin Religions Still Do Now...

As They Most Always

Picture Hell

With Folks

Wearing No Clothes...

And Spend A Life Covering God All Up
Like Something A Cat Leaves Behind For Worms...

Meh,

Worms

Gotta

Make a Living too...

And Cats Gotta Go When They Go too...

Yawn, Purr, or Roar; It All Works Out Great
in Heaven on Earth At Least for me; Just Naked Free...
Like the Rest of (GoD) Nature Not Covered Up Hidden Materially Reduced...



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