New data shows deaths by vaccination status in England

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Daddy63
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21 Jun 2021, 9:59 am

funeralxempire wrote:
The fact that it hasn't suggests that it's probably not true. You sound as devoted to ideology over reality as any good little Leninist.

Image


Now I'm a good little Leninist. Thanks for the chuckle.

Capitalism and democracy together are probably always going to move towards Marxism.



funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2021, 10:07 am

Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The fact that it hasn't suggests that it's probably not true. You sound as devoted to ideology over reality as any good little Leninist.

Image


Now I'm a good little Leninist. Thanks for the chuckle.

Capitalism and democracy together are probably always going to move towards Marxism.


You're like one, you're clearly not one.

It's the inability to remove yourself from that box. Capitalism has hundreds of sub-ideologies within it, they often disagree on significant matters and most of them acknowledge failures that would result from embracing more liberal or pure or libertarian policies than what they propose.

Socialism is the same way. It would be silly to put on a Team Socialism jersey and argue as though I can either represent the entirety of socialist thought or to present as though I agree with the entirety of it, even the points where socialists disagree with each other heavily. Pure capitalism doesn't even appear to be a desirable goal for most capitalists and most of them have strong cases for why the ones who favour it are wrong.

You can put on the Team Capitalist jersey but the same outcome results.

In this case because much of the research wasn't driven by market pressures but instead by government and universities it's not a good case-study in how great deregulated capitalism would be, it's more an example of how government and planning also can play a vital role.


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kraftiekortie
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21 Jun 2021, 10:12 am

If we had unfettered capitalism, we would have "panics" every 7 to 10 years or so-----or perhaps even more often. This happened in the 19th century in the US.

We would have "masses" who are the exploited ones. We would have conditions conducive to the spread of Marxist/communist ideology.



Daddy63
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21 Jun 2021, 11:17 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If we had unfettered capitalism, we would have "panics" every 7 to 10 years or so-----or perhaps even more often. This happened in the 19th century in the US.

We would have "masses" who are the exploited ones. We would have conditions conducive to the spread of Marxist/communist ideology.


We still have "panics" every 7 to 10 years. They're called economic recessions.



Kitty4670
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21 Jun 2021, 11:01 pm

So this is not true. I’m confused.



DW_a_mom
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22 Jun 2021, 3:52 am

Apparently there are some deaths in breakthrough cases, but this fact check article helps put it in perspective:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 856504001/

I am thankful to be vaccinated. I am NOT throwing away all caution, just reducing it significantly. Nothing in life has zero risk, but I'm used to pandemic life and its easy to continue some of the steps. It's been a joy to spend time without masks with my 92 year old mom. Since we both wear hearing aids, distanced visits with masks weren't really working. Little changes like that. I respect that everyone is going to make their own choices and at this time I think we simply need to all be respectful of how other people are choosing to approach the significantly reduced but lingering risk. No judging, and I have no patience for people who want to mock. Follow house rules for the place you are; if a store says wear masks, you wear them. If it doesn't, you can't expect others to wear them just for you. Respect private property rules, respect the law, and respect individual differences and choices. It shouldn't be hard.


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magz
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22 Jun 2021, 5:25 am

I am fully vaccinated. I calmly waited until non-priority people like me could register - and the day the registration opened for me, I got in. My husband found out that next to his parents' place, there were Moderna shots available (only AZ was in our city at the time), so we did a bit of tourism to get the vaccine with higher efficacy.

My parents refuse to get vaccinated. It annoys me because I want to visit them with my children (who can't be vaccinated yet, as they're under 12) and I very much don't want to accidentally kill them :(


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22 Jun 2021, 5:27 am

Why the ongoing mass vaccination experiment drives a rapid evolutionary response of SARS-CoV-2

Published today.

In conclusion: There is no way that the ongoing pharmaceutical (mass vaccination) and nonpharmaceutical interventions will prevent propagation of more infectious variants (those got already selected before the initiation of mass vaccination campaigns, presumably as a result of widespread implementation of stringent infection prevention measures) or variants comprising one or more RBD-associated nAb-resistant mutations. On the contrary, all evidence from molecular epidemiology indicates that the ongoing shift in natural selection forces exerted by the population on Sars-CoV-2 mutations is merely going to expedite the selection and propagation of more problematic variants of concern. It is beyond any doubt that growing vaccine coverage rates in the global population will further exploit the evolutionary capacity of Sars-CoV-2 to adapt to a higher and higher S-directed immune selection pressure until full vaccine resistance is achieved.

Compassionate scientists who have been taking a deep dive in these complex matters are now increasingly left with the impression that health authorities and advising experts will simply continue to deny that they are desperately wrong, no matter how compelling the scientific evidence that has been brought to the table and no matter the consequences this unprecedented public health experiment may involve for many years to come."


https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post ... sars-cov-2



magz
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22 Jun 2021, 7:04 am

While everything people do creates evolutional pressures on the virus, it's relatively easy to update the existing vaccines against new variants - you just need to substitute the protein/mRNA used in the vaccine for the variant's version of this protein/mRNA.

So far, new variants emerge only in mostly unvaccinated populations.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jun 2021, 7:23 am

magz wrote:
I am fully vaccinated. I calmly waited until non-priority people like me could register - and the day the registration opened for me, I got in. My husband found out that next to his parents' place, there were Moderna shots available (only AZ was in our city at the time), so we did a bit of tourism to get the vaccine with higher efficacy.

My parents refuse to get vaccinated. It annoys me because I want to visit them with my children (who can't be vaccinated yet, as they're under 12) and I very much don't want to accidentally kill them :(



AZ is safe too.



magz
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22 Jun 2021, 7:34 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AZ is safe too.

Yes, it is. It's less effective than Pfizer or Moderna - like 75% vs 95% - but still very effective, and protecting against severe illness.
But as getting the more effective shot required only synchronization with a visit at my inlaws', we decided it's worth it.


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lostproperty
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22 Jun 2021, 11:39 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
I am fully vaccinated. I calmly waited until non-priority people like me could register - and the day the registration opened for me, I got in. My husband found out that next to his parents' place, there were Moderna shots available (only AZ was in our city at the time), so we did a bit of tourism to get the vaccine with higher efficacy.

My parents refuse to get vaccinated. It annoys me because I want to visit them with my children (who can't be vaccinated yet, as they're under 12) and I very much don't want to accidentally kill them :(



AZ is safe too.



You can hope or believe that these vaccines are safe, they may turn out to be safe, but that doesn't make them safe.
None of them can be declared safe by anybody who understands what safety means in relation to these vaccines until we have longer term data.
AZ is proving to be the least safe at present. Many countries have withdrawn or refuse to use it.
If I had to have the jab, that would be the one I'd definitely avoid, given the choice.



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22 Jun 2021, 3:47 pm

magz wrote:
I am fully vaccinated. I calmly waited until non-priority people like me could register - and the day the registration opened for me, I got in. My husband found out that next to his parents' place, there were Moderna shots available (only AZ was in our city at the time), so we did a bit of tourism to get the vaccine with higher efficacy.

My parents refuse to get vaccinated. It annoys me because I want to visit them with my children (who can't be vaccinated yet, as they're under 12) and I very much don't want to accidentally kill them :(


Why won't your parents get vaccinated?


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22 Jun 2021, 5:33 pm

People should be given the choice. If you feel like the virus is a threat to you or you just prefer to be protected then definitely have the vaccine. If you feel dubious about having the vaccine or would rather wait a few more months for better evidence that the vaccines are reliably safe then that should also be your choice. Nobody should be forced into doing anything. The more they try to force people the more people will come up with conspiracy theories. The more they give people the choice (but encouragement at the same time) the more people will actually choose to have the vaccine.

Making people be vaccinated before traveling outside the country is understandable. Making people be vaccinated to go into a restaurant in their own home town is just controlment. It won't make any difference if I went into a restaurant full of likely vaccinated people whether I am vaccinated or not. It is not the same as wearing masks. Wearing masks protects others more than yourself, which is why it's understandable than wearing masks is mandatory in public places. Vaccines protect yourself.


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24 Jun 2021, 3:40 am

Yet another blow for the AZ vaccine

Australia will gradually phase out the use of the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine in its national vaccine roll-out, with doses only to be given if requested from October onwards. The decision has been spurred by safety concerns and follows the development of a condition that can cause paralysis and can even be life-threatening shortly after taking the AZ vaccine in at least eight Australians.

Meanwhile, back in England

The Principle trial at the University of Oxford has selected Ivermectin for inclusion in its study of repurposed drugs for treatment of COVID-19. It will be given to people with Covid symptoms to see if it can keep them out of hospital. The BBC has the story.

So does this mean youtube will continue to censor anybody who discusses Ivermectin as an effective treatment now that the BBC are finally talking about it? A reminder that the patent on Ivermectin has run out, so anybody can make it, which means there is no huge profit in it, unlike the vaccines. Also, the licence for experiential emergency vaccines is dependent on there being no effective treatment, according to the guidelines.



lostproperty
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24 Jun 2021, 4:53 am

And there's more today.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is set to add a warning to the Covid vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said there is a “likely link” between them and cases of heart inflammation, particularly in children and young adults.