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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2021, 9:28 am

https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/19/amn ... ahim-raisi

He sounds like a nice guy /sarcasm.


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GGPViper
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19 Jun 2021, 1:03 pm

And thanks to the foreign policy brilliance of Donald Trump, he'll likely have nuclear weapons soon - perhaps even before the end of the year.



naturalplastic
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19 Jun 2021, 1:04 pm

Yep, he's a real sweet pea, as Cockney would say. :roll:

From my American POV it comes down to which side in the regional mideast cold war do you want our POTUS to favor.

The nasty Iranian regime that hangs folks at the drop of a hat, or the nasty Saudi Regime that beheads folks at the drop of a hat?

The new Iranian president tips my sentiment to being against Iran. But if that new Saudi Prince gets more power, the one who murders American journalists with bone saws, then the scale evens out at least.

But Iran is more of threat to the regional status quo, and thus to American interests than is Saudi Arabia.



goldfish21
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19 Jun 2021, 3:50 pm

^I heard that Khashoggi only used being a journalist as a cover. In reality, he was an arms dealer.. and everywhere he went, rebel forces mysteriously obtained the arms they needed to fight against the Saudi's.. and that's why he got got.

Plausible, IMO.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Jun 2021, 3:24 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Yep, he's a real sweet pea, as Cockney would say. :roll:

From my American POV it comes down to which side in the regional mideast cold war do you want our POTUS to favor.

The nasty Iranian regime that hangs folks at the drop of a hat, or the nasty Saudi Regime that beheads folks at the drop of a hat?

The new Iranian president tips my sentiment to being against Iran. But if that new Saudi Prince gets more power, the one who murders American journalists with bone saws, then the scale evens out at least.

But Iran is more of threat to the regional status quo, and thus to American interests than is Saudi Arabia.



Let it make it easier for you: The Saudi Crown Prince is loved by Saudi women because he is giving them unprecedented rights, he made changes no one else before him did and he’s weakening the clergy’s power. While Iran’s clergy is pulling Iran down even more.

Here, if the west has to choose a side then it should side with this crown prince, he is the only one who is taking actions to moderate the region, no argument here.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Jun 2021, 3:47 am

goldfish21 wrote:
^I heard that Khashoggi only used being a journalist as a cover. In reality, he was an arms dealer.. and everywhere he went, rebel forces mysteriously obtained the arms they needed to fight against the Saudi's.. and that's why he got got.

Plausible, IMO.


And was protected by Erdogan, the Godfather of the Muslim Brotherhood. :roll:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi

He wasn’t so sweet pea after all.


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naturalplastic
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20 Jun 2021, 9:36 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yep, he's a real sweet pea, as Cockney would say. :roll:

From my American POV it comes down to which side in the regional mideast cold war do you want our POTUS to favor.

The nasty Iranian regime that hangs folks at the drop of a hat, or the nasty Saudi Regime that beheads folks at the drop of a hat?

The new Iranian president tips my sentiment to being against Iran. But if that new Saudi Prince gets more power, the one who murders American journalists with bone saws, then the scale evens out at least.

But Iran is more of threat to the regional status quo, and thus to American interests than is Saudi Arabia.



Let it make it easier for you: The Saudi Crown Prince is loved by Saudi women because he is giving them unprecedented rights, he made changes no one else before him did and he’s weakening the clergy’s power. While Iran’s clergy is pulling Iran down even more.

Here, if the west has to choose a side then it should side with this crown prince, he is the only one who is taking actions to moderate the region, no argument here.



That prince did give rights to women ( and at first it looked he was being a "radical sheik"- radical in a good way). . But he whacked Kashoggi...but if Kashoggi is not an innocent journalist but a bad guy then the Prince is a good guy...but ...

Wait.

Was Koshoggi alleged to be an agent for Iran (to arm Iran's proxies in the region)? Or for Turkey and the Muslim Brotherhood? The Muslim Brotherhood are Sunni, and thus enemies of the Shiite mullahs of Iran. So...which side was he on? I just cant figure out who to root for over there.



The_Face_of_Boo
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20 Jun 2021, 9:57 am

^ The MB are allied with Iran in some places Ie. Hamas.

It’s complicated.

Surely I am not saying the Saudi royals are democratic, yeah they killed Khashoggi, why that should affect which side to choose?

as if Iran’s regime never killed its political oppositions before?


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goldfish21
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20 Jun 2021, 10:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ The MB are allied with Iran in some places Ie. Hamas.

It’s complicated.

Surely I am not saying the Saudi royals are democratic, yeah they killed Khashoggi, why that should affect which side to choose?

as if Iran’s regime never killed its political oppositions before?


Why is there any que$tion over which side America will choose? :?

Saudi's have bought tonnes and tonnes of weapons from the USA. Billions of dollars worth.

Iran? Nope. They've gotten sanctions instead.

Follow the money.. the other place could be a smoking hole in the sand glazed over by freshly formed glass for all the USA cares.


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20 Jun 2021, 7:24 pm

Netanyahu on steroids vs. Ahmedinejad on steroids. What could possibly go wrong?


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20 Jun 2021, 9:51 pm

GGPViper wrote:
And thanks to the foreign policy brilliance of Donald Trump, he'll likely have nuclear weapons soon - perhaps even before the end of the year.



Not to get off the subject, but I just noticed your new avatar of Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer). Very cool!


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naturalplastic
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20 Jun 2021, 10:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ The MB are allied with Iran in some places Ie. Hamas.

It’s complicated.

Surely I am not saying the Saudi royals are democratic, yeah they killed Khashoggi, why that should affect which side to choose?

as if Iran’s regime never killed its political oppositions before?


Why is there any que$tion over which side America will choose? :?

Saudi's have bought tonnes and tonnes of weapons from the USA. Billions of dollars worth.

Iran? Nope. They've gotten sanctions instead.

Follow the money.. the other place could be a smoking hole in the sand glazed over by freshly formed glass for all the USA cares.


well...I was facetiously asking "which side SHOULD we root for?" as if there were clear cut good guys and bad guys. Not "which side WOULD we side with?". But -yes- you would think that the US would both follow the money (Saudi Arabia), and follow its traditional ally (Israel) and side with the Arab-Israel alliance against Iran. But Obama was rather even handed, and got pilloried for being too "pro Iran". Trump tore up the treaty with Iran and was excessively pro Saudi and pro Israel, and seemed to be purposely provoking a US-Iran war. Trump restored sanctions against Iran which some say forced the Iranian population to vote in this new hardliner. If thats a correct analysis then Trump left Biden with a fine mess.



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21 Jun 2021, 12:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
And thanks to the foreign policy brilliance of Donald Trump, he'll likely have nuclear weapons soon - perhaps even before the end of the year.

Not to get off the subject, but I just noticed your new avatar of Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer). Very cool!

Always a pleasure to be in the company of another movie aficionado :D



cyberdad
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21 Jun 2021, 1:58 am

What the heck happened to Persia? they were once the greatest most progressive empire in the ancient world till Rome. Today they are the world's biggest cult followed closely by ISIS and the MAGA cults.



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21 Jun 2021, 4:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
What the heck happened to Persia? they were once the greatest most progressive empire in the ancient world till Rome. Today they are the world's biggest cult followed closely by ISIS and the MAGA cults.


Several things destroyed them:

The Arab invasion pretty much wiped out most of Persian culture and suppressed indigenous Persian religions by labeling Zoorastrians as fire worshippers and thus associating them with pagans. Unfortunately and very shamefully having been brought up in Islam schools I was taught to view the ancient Persians as barbaric fire worshipping savages who were enlightened and civilized by the Muslim invaders.

The Mongols under Genghis Khan wiped out another prosperous empire, the Khawarazm Empire

Hundreds of years of war with Ottomans then later different warrior tribes weakened them

The US CIA initiated a coup in 1953 and put a dictator that was hated by the people just because their former leader wanted to nationalize the oil

And as a reaction to the corrupt rule of said dictator the Islamist revolution led to Iran going 180 in the opposite direction

US sided with Saddam Hussein and armed him against Iran in Iran-Iraq War

It's no wonder Iran hates the Arabs and America. Both Arabs and America committed a horrible crime against a once prosperous civilization and subjected these people to hell and torment that's truly shameful


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21 Jun 2021, 4:53 am

GGPViper wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
And thanks to the foreign policy brilliance of Donald Trump, he'll likely have nuclear weapons soon - perhaps even before the end of the year.

Not to get off the subject, but I just noticed your new avatar of Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer). Very cool!

Always a pleasure to be in the company of another movie aficionado :D


8) 8)


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