Board index › General Discussion › News and Current Events

Even North Korea was not this nuts

Page 3 of 4 [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

21 Jun 2021, 7:20 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not redefining Marxism as anything, I'm pointing out that Marx never said s**t about gender identity so only a dishonest person would try to pretend this has anything to do with Marxism.


Gender identity? I didn't say anything about it.


No, the North Korean lady who was interviewed did; I just assumed that everyone posting was familiar with the OP before commenting.


I assumed if you were going to attack me with something that it would be for something I said. I won't make that assumption again.

With that said, modern Marxism attempts to replace socio-economic class with the intersection of race, religion, gender and sexual orientation and attempts to create equity across those intersectional groups. It's more generally called "Social Justice" today and not Marxism or Socialism. Marxism clearly has a negative connotation that modern Marxists (Social Justice Warriors) are understandably keen to avoid.

Whenever the word "Marxism" is used in social media, modern Marxists out themselves by jumping all over it. Kind of like Pavlov's dog. I find it humorous.


From what I've seen most of the people you've labelled Marxists over the years weren't.
They were just people you disagreed with.


Some Social Justice Warriors label themselves as Marxists by definition. That's not from me.


Fixed that for ya. Not everyone who might get labelled as an SJW (or everyone who self-identifies as such) is a socialist and not all socialists are Marxists. The fact that some people identify as both Marxists and SJWs isn't actually the same as all SJWs being Marxists.

Marxism doesn't have the best associations for people who aren't Marxist, it generally isn't Marxists who cringe at being identified as such, it's people who aren't positive towards Marx or Marxism.

He's an important early economist but I wouldn't consider him a worthwhile ideological figure to look towards for guidance. He one voice among many and there's no reason to deify any of them since that only encourages totalitarian traits, a political system should never operate like a cult, that's what led to Leninism and it's offshoots and that's what lead to fascism (which in a lot of ways is the anti-communist mirror image of Leninism, same cult of the leader and plan to reach utopia; the big difference is what that utopia looks like and the rhetoric used).


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Daddy63
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 551

21 Jun 2021, 8:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Fixed that for ya. Not everyone who might get labelled as an SJW (or everyone who self-identifies as such) is a socialist and not all socialists are Marxists. The fact that some people identify as both Marxists and SJWs isn't actually the same as all SJWs being Marxists.

Marxism doesn't have the best associations for people who aren't Marxist, it generally isn't Marxists who cringe at being identified as such, it's people who aren't positive towards Marx or Marxism.

He's an important early economist but I wouldn't consider him a worthwhile ideological figure to look towards for guidance. He one voice among many and there's no reason to deify any of them since that only encourages totalitarian traits, a political system should never operate like a cult, that's what led to Leninism and it's offshoots and that's what lead to fascism (which in a lot of ways is the anti-communist mirror image of Leninism, same cult of the leader and plan to reach utopia; the big difference is what that utopia looks like and the rhetoric used).


Not every SJW knows they are a Socialist because they often don't know what Socialism is and don't want to be associated with something that has a negative connotation. If you explain the goals and characteristics of Socialism without calling it Socialism, they will all emphatically support it. Try it sometime. It's entertaining.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

21 Jun 2021, 8:36 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

Fixed that for ya. Not everyone who might get labelled as an SJW (or everyone who self-identifies as such) is a socialist and not all socialists are Marxists. The fact that some people identify as both Marxists and SJWs isn't actually the same as all SJWs being Marxists.

Marxism doesn't have the best associations for people who aren't Marxist, it generally isn't Marxists who cringe at being identified as such, it's people who aren't positive towards Marx or Marxism.

He's an important early economist but I wouldn't consider him a worthwhile ideological figure to look towards for guidance. He one voice among many and there's no reason to deify any of them since that only encourages totalitarian traits, a political system should never operate like a cult, that's what led to Leninism and it's offshoots and that's what lead to fascism (which in a lot of ways is the anti-communist mirror image of Leninism, same cult of the leader and plan to reach utopia; the big difference is what that utopia looks like and the rhetoric used).


Not every SJW knows they are a Socialist because they often don't know what Socialism is and don't want to be associated with something that has a negative connotation. If you explain the goals and characteristics of Socialism without calling it Socialism, they will all emphatically support it. Try it sometime. It's entertaining.


Most progressives support a mixed-market with a social safety net. That's might be what Tucker and Ben call socialism but that doesn't make it socialism in the real world. It's not Diet Socialism, it's not even Socialism Zero, it's just a slight tweak on the status quo which I recall you insisting was capitalist earlier.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Daddy63
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 551

21 Jun 2021, 8:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

Fixed that for ya. Not everyone who might get labelled as an SJW (or everyone who self-identifies as such) is a socialist and not all socialists are Marxists. The fact that some people identify as both Marxists and SJWs isn't actually the same as all SJWs being Marxists.

Marxism doesn't have the best associations for people who aren't Marxist, it generally isn't Marxists who cringe at being identified as such, it's people who aren't positive towards Marx or Marxism.

He's an important early economist but I wouldn't consider him a worthwhile ideological figure to look towards for guidance. He one voice among many and there's no reason to deify any of them since that only encourages totalitarian traits, a political system should never operate like a cult, that's what led to Leninism and it's offshoots and that's what lead to fascism (which in a lot of ways is the anti-communist mirror image of Leninism, same cult of the leader and plan to reach utopia; the big difference is what that utopia looks like and the rhetoric used).


Not every SJW knows they are a Socialist because they often don't know what Socialism is and don't want to be associated with something that has a negative connotation. If you explain the goals and characteristics of Socialism without calling it Socialism, they will all emphatically support it. Try it sometime. It's entertaining.


Most progressives support a mixed-market with a social safety net. That's might be what Tucker and Ben call socialism but that doesn't make it socialism in the real world. It's not Diet Socialism, it's not even Socialism Zero, it's just a slight tweak on the status quo which I recall you insisting was capitalist earlier.


Again, ask any SJW if they support the major principles and objectives of Socialism without calling it Socialism and they will say yes. Your Tucker/Ben nonsense is pretty funny. Yet another chuckle. Thanks.



Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,363
Location: Tulsa, OK

22 Jun 2021, 8:20 am

No matter what we euphemistically call socialism. Its still socialism.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

22 Jun 2021, 9:35 am

Progressives and social democrats aren't socialists no matter how many times the underinformed insist otherwise. :wink:


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Daddy63
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 551

22 Jun 2021, 4:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Progressives and social democrats aren't socialists no matter how many times the underinformed insist otherwise. :wink:


Many informed SJW's aren't in denial over Marxism these days. They know they're Marxists and are proud of it.

The underinformed SJW's don't really know what Marxism is and avoid it simply because of their perceived negativity of being labeled with the word even though it fits them perfectly.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

22 Jun 2021, 4:44 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Progressives and social democrats aren't socialists no matter how many times the underinformed insist otherwise. :wink:


Many informed SJW's aren't in denial over Marxism these days. They know they're Marxists and are proud of it.

The underinformed SJW's don't really know what Marxism is and avoid it simply because of their perceived negativity of being labeled with the word even though it fits them perfectly.


The Marxists might be Marxists, but not all leftists are Marxists and it's a silly rhetorical device to rely on because it just destroys the credibility of the person relying on mislabelling their opponents.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,247

22 Jun 2021, 4:44 pm

We truly live in an authoritarian dystopia, where people are allowed to exercise their right to identify how they want and live their lives as they please... Wait... :scratch:



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

22 Jun 2021, 4:46 pm

I would go further, and state that "liberalism," as practiced in North America, is at least as antithetical to Marxism as conservatism.



Daddy63
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 551

22 Jun 2021, 6:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
The Marxists might be Marxists, but not all leftists are Marxists and it's a silly rhetorical device to rely on because it just destroys the credibility of the person relying on mislabelling their opponents.


I didn't say all leftists are Marxists. I said all SJW's are Marxists.

Purposely changing someone's words is a silly device to rely on because it just destroys one's own credibility.[



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

22 Jun 2021, 6:15 pm

Certainly not all SJW's are Marxists, either.



Daddy63
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 551

22 Jun 2021, 6:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I would go further, and state that "liberalism," as practiced in North America, is at least as antithetical to Marxism as conservatism.


Maybe "libertarianism" is antithetical to Maxism. Many of our modern US liberals are proud Marxists.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

22 Jun 2021, 6:19 pm

I don't know any "liberal" who is an actual Marxist.

I can't stand Marxism myself.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

22 Jun 2021, 6:20 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I would go further, and state that "liberalism," as practiced in North America, is at least as antithetical to Marxism as conservatism.


Maybe "libertarianism" is antithetical to Maxism. Many of our modern US liberals are proud Marxists.


Marxists don't call themselves liberals because liberals are their capitalist opponents.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder

22 Jun 2021, 6:22 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The Marxists might be Marxists, but not all leftists are Marxists and it's a silly rhetorical device to rely on because it just destroys the credibility of the person relying on mislabelling their opponents.


I didn't say all leftists are Marxists. I said all SJW's are Marxists.

Purposely changing someone's words is a silly device to rely on because it just destroys one's own credibility.[


Not all SJWs are either. Most of them aren't Marxists.

They're Marxists whether they know it or not even if they're actually not Marxists didn't work last time either.


_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う