Covid hits nursing home. 52 of 55 infected were vaccinated
I think there might be a few people here, who are caught up in 'Vaxomania', in danger of backing themselves into a similar corner that the Covid-deniers did, to the point they convinced themselves that Covid didn't actually exist.
These vaccines are causing harm and are killing people. To what degree is open to debate. With children now being targeted, it's become a very urgent debate. Happily, it is now an issue that more and more people are beginning to take seriously and more and more people are showing bravery in coming forward with their knowledge and experience.
I am not ant-vaxxer at all. I am pro-safety and pro-choice, including a choice of safe treatments.
Last edited by lostproperty on 25 Jun 2021, 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
I am not ant-vaxxer at all. I am pro-safety and pro-choice, including a choice of safe treatments.
Sorry but no.
You're repeating unconfirmed and debunked claims of antivaxers, in particluar statistics that treat all deaths that happened after vaccinations as if they were caused by the vaccinations.
It's apparently the favorite manipulation of anti-covid-vaxers because, as old and very old people are vaccinated against covid first, relatively many of them die soon after it.
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Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
I am not ant-vaxxer at all. I am pro-safety and pro-choice, including a choice of safe treatments.
Sorry but no.
You're repeating unconfirmed and debunked claims of antivaxers.
As opposed to parroting government/big pharma propaganda.
Also, if you are going to quote others, please do not substitute your own words for theirs -- "lies" for "subversion and mistrust", for example.
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Last edited by Cornflake on 25 Jun 2021, 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.: Corrected quote
Govermnents have interest in getting people vaccinated because they lose on lockdowns, lose on social disturbance caused by the epidemics and (in Europe and UK) they pay for hospital treatments. This is their interest in pro-vac propaganda. They want the disturbance over as quickly as possible.
So far, all the articles you provided show the same fallacy: they attribute all post-vaccination deaths to the vaccinations.
Apparently the favorite strategy of anti-covid-vaxers. It wouldn't work for children shots but for a vaccine used on old people - no way some wouldn't die soon later so let's claim causation before any proper investigation on it.
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Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
Anti-covid vaxxers are as anti-covid vaxxers do (or say).
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So far, all the articles you provided show the same fallacy: they attribute all post-vaccination deaths to the vaccinations.
Apparently the favorite strategy of anti-covid-vaxers. It wouldn't work for children shots but for a vaccine used on old people - no way some wouldn't die soon later so let's claim causation before any proper investigation on it.
Lockdowns are another issue altogether and are not the only alternative to vaccines.
It was wrong to attribute all deaths to Covid of those who had tested positive and apparently died with it rather than of it. The same applies in this case. Of course a percentage of people will have died in the last 6 months for reasons other than the vaccine having had the vaccine, but that does not mean the vaccines are not causing harm and death in the short term. Long term, nobody knows or can know.
These are easily available statistics: look at excess deaths and how they're correlated with covid cases spikes in various countries - this way you can test it against various lockdown and vaccination policies.
I encourage you to do the research for yourself if you identify as an independent thinker.
I did.
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Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
Assuming they are accurate in the first place, stats can be manipulated to tell you whatever you want them to tell you, there are all sorts of variables that can be taken into or out of account. This applies to both sides of the argument and we've seen this battle play out, back and forth, since the pandemic began.
As I've said before. It all comes down to who you trust. You've clearly put your trust in the government and the pharmaceutical giants. I don't trust them at all. That isn't normally a problem, but when coercion and the threat of force comes into play, then it does become a problem and it's time for people to speak up.
I'm a physicist. I trust my ability to interpret raw data, including taking possible biases and manipulation into account. I also trust my collegues from ICM (Interdyscyplinarne Centrum Modelowania, Interdisciplinary Modelling Center), including being aware of limitations of their models.
I generally trust the scientific process, including uncertainity handling and systematic doubt resulting in constant correction of previous results.
Who do you trust?
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Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
I think I'd rather see data from science-based institutions - at least they're presented using known and tested scientific methods.
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Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.
I tend to trust the experts who are not compromised, those who are now retired having worked in the field their whole life who have nothing other than their reputations to lose and are not afraid to speak out. Plus NHS Whistle-blowers. Above all, my own gut extinct that something is not right when the ability to sue for damages is withdrawn for a vaccine given emergency use whilst people are being censored and/or smeared for trying to discuss alternatives.
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