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somesortofvariant
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07 Sep 2021, 5:15 am

Over the past 3 years or so, I started having intrusive thoughts. At first, they would only pop up a couple days before my menstrual cycle and linger for about 5 days, but then they started to be around a lot more often. They seem to be tied to my hormones or depression levels. They are predominantly self-attacking thoughts, but if I get frustrated at work, they will turn to thoughts about attacking others.

I have started to counter my automatic negative thoughts with self-affirming, loving thoughts. And although it feels ridiculous and silly, it also has helped. Rather than getting caught up in feeling bad about having bad thoughts...you know that classic loop of attacking yourself for having self-attacking thoughts....I instead do a trick similar to the Big Red STOP sign and go into a tirade about how I will not tolerate an attack on myself, how I am worth defending from attack, how I am precious and love myself and will not tolerate any thoughts to the contrary.

Now to contradict what I just said, I also did that trick mentioned earlier...playing with the thoughts,making them more intense...and despite the goriness and excessive levels of torture I imagined putting myself through, it really did help. It felt good imagining it, and the thoughts did go away after that. In some ways, it felt like a playful indulgence, a gift to myself. I woke up worried that I could imagine something so brutal, but decided to be happy for the relief regardless.

When I have automatic negative thoughts about work or people at work, I am now trying to take it as a sign that I need to just face the truth of my frustration at work and make a step towards relieving the frustration. There is a lot of frustration there because I have spent years trying to pretend and convince myself everything was just fine. :roll:



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07 Sep 2021, 6:28 am

Joe90 wrote:
This was mentioned in another thread but I didn't want to derail the thread on to myself so I thought I'd do a separate thread.

Quote:
Intrusive thoughts are unwanted thoughts that can pop into our heads without warning, at any time. They're often repetitive – with the same kind of thought cropping up again and again – and they can be disturbing or even distressing.


I definitely suffer this. Until now I've never known what these sorts of thoughts I have were, and whenever I expressed them to other people, even other autistics, they don't relate and it makes me feel alone. Does anyone here have intrusive thoughts, and if so can you describe them? (If you can, that is, as intrusive thoughts can be so weird and illogical that it can be like explaining the colour blue).

I can definitely relate to these thoughts being disturbing and distressing.

I have synesthesia so that can make some of my thoughts weird like I see emotions on objects, which can make me sound insane to others.


Hi, Joe! I am autistic and also have OCD (with intrusive thoughts and ritualistic behaviors). I was diagnosed with OCD back in 2007.

My intrusive thoughts seem to come in waves (I'll struggle with a specific intrusive thought for several months or longer). They CAN taper off after I do a lot of self-care/work on them, but this isn't a guarantee that they won't come back. They can involve things that are really disturbing, really inappropriate, or even things that don't make a lot of sense. The best way I can describe them:

Like clips from a movie playing in my head on a loop, and I have no way of stopping myself from seeing them. The more I fight the intrusive thoughts, the stronger they become. They often make me question my sanity and my morality. The more I embrace them (and embrace that they are a part of myself), the more they ease up. It is so counterintuitive!

Side note (but related): I also have MAJOR issues with ear worms. I have to cover my ears if a catchy song (even one that I love) comes on television. If I don't, it will get stuck in my head for several weeks on a very similar loop (as I mentioned with intrusive thoughts). I lose sleep and get very distressed over it. I'm wondering if I should be taking the "embrace them" approach with these songs, but I'm so terrified of getting songs stuck in my head. :'( I feel like I'm missing out on some of my favorite music. :'(


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07 Sep 2021, 6:43 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I have OCD so I have intrusive thoughts/obsessions about my pets and family members getting hurt, inappropriate sexual things, etc. I have almost no control over them and they bring me a great deal of anxiety.

You aren't alone in this. *hugs* It's so painful and difficult, I know. I'm so sorry you experience this too. :cry:


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Joe90
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07 Sep 2021, 6:45 am

Quote:
Side note (but related): I also have MAJOR issues with ear worms. I have to cover my ears if a catchy song (even one that I love) comes on television. If I don't, it will get stuck in my head for several weeks on a very similar loop (as I mentioned with intrusive thoughts). I lose sleep and get very distressed over it. I'm wondering if I should be taking the "embrace them" approach with these songs, but I'm so terrified of getting songs stuck in my head. :'( I feel like I'm missing out on some of my favorite music. :'(


I find that the more I listen to a certain song the less it gets stuck in my head. It gets stuck tremendously at first, but the more I listen to it the less I hear it in my head. The song Castles by Freya Ridings got stuck in my head for days and I was getting sick of it. The earworm was even causing a slight headache and loss of sleep. But now it doesn't get stuck in my head at all.
Doesn't work for so much for songs I don't like though, because you're not exactly going to listen to a song you don't like over and over. So that is a bit annoying.


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07 Sep 2021, 6:49 am

somesortofvariant wrote:
Over the past 3 years or so, I started having intrusive thoughts. At first, they would only pop up a couple days before my menstrual cycle and linger for about 5 days, but then they started to be around a lot more often. They seem to be tied to my hormones or depression levels. They are predominantly self-attacking thoughts, but if I get frustrated at work, they will turn to thoughts about attacking others.

I have started to counter my automatic negative thoughts with self-affirming, loving thoughts. And although it feels ridiculous and silly, it also has helped. Rather than getting caught up in feeling bad about having bad thoughts...you know that classic loop of attacking yourself for having self-attacking thoughts....I instead do a trick similar to the Big Red STOP sign and go into a tirade about how I will not tolerate an attack on myself, how I am worth defending from attack, how I am precious and love myself and will not tolerate any thoughts to the contrary.

Now to contradict what I just said, I also did that trick mentioned earlier...playing with the thoughts,making them more intense...and despite the goriness and excessive levels of torture I imagined putting myself through, it really did help. It felt good imagining it, and the thoughts did go away after that. In some ways, it felt like a playful indulgence, a gift to myself. I woke up worried that I could imagine something so brutal, but decided to be happy for the relief regardless.

When I have automatic negative thoughts about work or people at work, I am now trying to take it as a sign that I need to just face the truth of my frustration at work and make a step towards relieving the frustration. There is a lot of frustration there because I have spent years trying to pretend and convince myself everything was just fine. :roll:

Oooh, my menstrual cycle works against me as well. My intrusive thoughts involving self-harm and suicide are absolutely linked to my hormone levels.

The best method for me is: noting I'm having an intrusive thought and then embracing the thought (no matter how painful it is). As I mentioned above, dealing with intrusive thoughts is so counterintuitive. The more we fight them, the stronger they become.


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Last edited by Flown on 07 Sep 2021, 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Sep 2021, 6:51 am

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
Side note (but related): I also have MAJOR issues with ear worms. I have to cover my ears if a catchy song (even one that I love) comes on television. If I don't, it will get stuck in my head for several weeks on a very similar loop (as I mentioned with intrusive thoughts). I lose sleep and get very distressed over it. I'm wondering if I should be taking the "embrace them" approach with these songs, but I'm so terrified of getting songs stuck in my head. :'( I feel like I'm missing out on some of my favorite music. :'(


I find that the more I listen to a certain song the less it gets stuck in my head. It gets stuck tremendously at first, but the more I listen to it the less I hear it in my head. The song Castles by Freya Ridings got stuck in my head for days and I was getting sick of it. The earworm was even causing a slight headache and loss of sleep. But now it doesn't get stuck in my head at all.
Doesn't work for so much for songs I don't like though, because you're not exactly going to listen to a song you don't like over and over. So that is a bit annoying.


I've tried this method, and it unfortunately doesn't work. I've also tried listening to other catchy songs, but then I end up with a jumble of catchy songs stuck in my head at one time. It is torture. I hate it!


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07 Sep 2021, 8:27 am

I have OCD and I lean more towards the O than the C. Intrusive thoughts have certainly been part of my existence. If I'm near a stair well, I stop and think about throwing myself down it, thinking how it would feel as I hit the sides, crashed on the steps, I can feel it and it's bizarre. I also have the thought of driving into oncoming traffic if I'm driving down the road, especially if a semi truck is coming my way. Again, I can feel the truck drive through me. It's a weird jolt. Sometimes I think about randomly kicking someone or putting a cigarette out on their leg. I wouldn't do any of these things, but the thoughts come and then go.

Minuteman wrote:
What I get are not so much intrusive thoughts but fixations. I will remember a random person or event from my past and cannot stop thinking about it. It might exit my head for a few days, weeks, months or even years, then out of nowhere it pops up again and it's all I can think about. I usually keep it under control but you could imagine what would happen if my wife knew I fixate sometimes about an ex-girlfriend.


^ I do that too. I get fixated on past events/situations and people. I have no idea why for most of it, and like you say, they come and go but cycle back around again. The same ones, the same people. If I let myself sit and think on those things/individuals they can occupy a lot of my time/headspace, so I try to keep mine in check as well. If I don't, it can easily become all I do in a day when I'm like that.



somesortofvariant
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09 Sep 2021, 8:36 am

Flown wrote:
The best method for me is: noting I'm having an intrusive thought and then embracing the thought (no matter how painful it is). As I mentioned above, dealing with intrusive thoughts is so counterintuitive. The more we fight them, the stronger they become.


Yes, indeed. Since reading this thread, I have had a situation arise that always leads to a few days of self-attacking automatic negative thoughts (ANTs). So I have had a chance to practice noting and embracing the thought. So far, not so bad...although I do wish they would go away altogether!

But I want to share a fun game I started with them. Last night I barely started reading the book Impro by Keith Johnstone. It is about improvisation. The first page mentioned a game that can help one feel more present and life more vibrant: Go around naming things, but use the wrong word. I tried it out, and there really is a temporary shift in perception and an openness. So I decided to play around with my ANTs. Whenever a self-attacking thought pops up, I will then change a noun or verb to a random word. I then get a laugh and the ANT subsides, at least temporarily.

At least it makes the ANTS more fun. :D



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10 Sep 2021, 12:26 am

I experience this too.

Thoughts about something terrible happening to someone or something you care a lot about. Sometimes they pop up even when things go really well -- I guess I get uncomfortable when things are in order because it feels like any moment everything could be thrown into disarray.



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10 Sep 2021, 8:15 am

somesortofvariant wrote:
Flown wrote:
The best method for me is: noting I'm having an intrusive thought and then embracing the thought (no matter how painful it is). As I mentioned above, dealing with intrusive thoughts is so counterintuitive. The more we fight them, the stronger they become.


Yes, indeed. Since reading this thread, I have had a situation arise that always leads to a few days of self-attacking automatic negative thoughts (ANTs). So I have had a chance to practice noting and embracing the thought. So far, not so bad...although I do wish they would go away altogether!

But I want to share a fun game I started with them. Last night I barely started reading the book Impro by Keith Johnstone. It is about improvisation. The first page mentioned a game that can help one feel more present and life more vibrant: Go around naming things, but use the wrong word. I tried it out, and there really is a temporary shift in perception and an openness. So I decided to play around with my ANTs. Whenever a self-attacking thought pops up, I will then change a noun or verb to a random word. I then get a laugh and the ANT subsides, at least temporarily.

At least it makes the ANTS more fun. :D


That is a really interesting exercise! I will have to try that out and see what happens. :D I bet my brain will freak out a bit at first with naming things incorrectly, but I bet it is good practice.


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10 Sep 2021, 8:17 am

1986 wrote:
I experience this too.

Thoughts about something terrible happening to someone or something you care a lot about. Sometimes they pop up even when things go really well -- I guess I get uncomfortable when things are in order because it feels like any moment everything could be thrown into disarray.

*hugs* Do you have C-PTSD + OCD by any chance? They are both in my list of diagnoses, and I'm wondering if this could be a reason for this sort of thing? My mind also starts to freak out a bit when things are really calm, like it's waiting for the next bad thing to happen.


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12 Sep 2021, 6:05 pm

I used to get them constantly before I took my antidepressants. Now I still get them but less often and they disturb me way less. I used to curl up in a ball sobbing because of them... When I was younger they would be very violent but now they are usually some sort of horrific sexual thought that make me wince.



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13 Sep 2021, 12:36 am

Quote:
*hugs* Do you have C-PTSD + OCD by any chance? They are both in my list of diagnoses, and I'm wondering if this could be a reason for this sort of thing? My mind also starts to freak out a bit when things are really calm, like it's waiting for the next bad thing to happen.

Thanks. Personally, I think I have "traits" of both conditions, but I'm able to keep symptoms under control to the degree that my doc won't put them on paper. Actually, he won't share what kind of condition he considers for me atm. I guess I'm either a difficult case, or an uninteresting one. :wink:

In the old days I'd probably be close to neurosis.



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14 Sep 2021, 8:21 am

There needs to be more discussion about how ASD and OCD interact with each other. I think that as bad as OCD can be on its own if a sufferer also has ASD then you've got an amplification of the consequences of such a condition. You'll see the intrusive thoughts potentially become overwhelming and impossible to suppress much like the problems autistics have with sensory input management. This though is cognitive input management.

ASD sufferers have higher rates of co-morbidity with Tourette's syndrome and I'm not sure if all manifestations of OCD tics are classed as Tourette's or the latter is some level of severity higher than the 'compulsive' elements of OCD. Someone will have to explain this to me...

I've suffered what has been self referred to by sufferers as 'Staring OCD' which is specifically visual focus related and is particularly concerned about peripheral and private area staring when engaged in social interactions. It is effectively an overlapping disorder with Alienation OCD and severe Social Anxiety. For some people Staring OCD might just have 'obsessive' elements and does not manifest in tics but cause discomfort and distraction to the sufferer. For those with the 'compulsive' elements then you see tics which reflexively manifest in 'focusing on' or being distracted by objects or people on the periphery of vision or private areas like the cleavage or genital areas of a person.

As you can imagine the aforementioned situation for a sufferer of 'Staring OCD' can lead to them being labelled a 'perv' or 'creeper' or something slur similar. The severity of the reaction is for certain effected by intersectional factors like attractiveness or popularity. I think for those with ASD who are effected by this type of OCD you've a higher chance of a strong hostile reaction if your tics are picked up. I know my tics have caused my public reputation to suffer an onslaught of pile on mobbing and I've been targeted by doxxers who have spread ever more salacious rumours about me that have damaged my standing with pretty much everyone in my life.

I think social anxiety related OCD subtypes need more attention as they will likely be the most serious in terms of negative impacts on people's lives as I've experienced. When I was looking up my problem online though I was getting itty bitty information which was vague and limited. Hopefully with more time and conversation we can build up a dialogue and look at solutions in the form of treatments therapies and safe spaces.


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26 Sep 2021, 5:09 pm

lvpin wrote:
I used to get them constantly before I took my antidepressants. Now I still get them but less often and they disturb me way less. I used to curl up in a ball sobbing because of them... When I was younger they would be very violent but now they are usually some sort of horrific sexual thought that make me wince.


That sounds awful. I'm so sorry.

Would you mind telling me how old/young you were when these horrible thoughts started? (I'll understand if you don't want to.)



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26 Sep 2021, 6:24 pm

I have intrusive thoughts. They are of the disturbing kind, but they're so far-fetched that I'm no longer phased by them. Such as;

- How would that person react if I just kicked their dog right now? Or 'What if I stole their baby and threw it into traffic?'

I know that I am not going to do those things, so I recognise it as an intrusive thought and I usually make a sarcastic retort to myself in my mind, such as 'Ah yes, for everyone knows that's how I like to spend my time'.


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