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Jayo
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26 Jun 2021, 7:47 pm

I realize that us "Aspies" are not inherently toxic folks, like say a narcissist, or control freak, or a histrionic or Type-A personality or what-have-you... but if anyone put that label on us, I'd say it was more due to misunderstandings OR based on secondary manifestations of ASD/HFA, such as being openly pessimistic or getting inappropriately upset (that is, based on depressive or anxiety conditions) - our primary manifestations just seem to be regarded as mental illness or "not all there" or "spaced out". Which is not inherently toxic, but just something that's shunned and stigmatized.

So about the misinterpretation: case in point, when I was 25 had a short term girlfriend (this was 2 years before my diagnosis so I had not idea what was "wrong" with me), and I would say the wrong things by not picking up hints that she wanted to do spend time with me going out to places and I had preferences to work out or watch a certain show at a certain time - then when she got upset and I acted genuinely bewildered, she lashed out at me with "Come on Jayo, I'm not one of your little b***ches that you can treat this way!!" - this made no sense at all to me, but then running it by one of my more enlightened NT friends, he surmised that she must've thought of me as the stereotypical alpha male "stud" who could just treat women as he pleased due to having options, i.e. he picked up the hints but he just didn't give a damn.

While I was somewhat flattered by this - after all, I had things going in the looks dept, worked out, had a good IT job, and was intelligent and witty/funny... it just didn't feel right. Basically, she regarded me as TOXIC. Because, in her mind and life experience (she too was 25), this sort of behaviour is much more common in the 20-something male population than "clinical cluelessness". So she was just using heuristics, you might say. 8O

We were only together for four months, then I was the one who cut her loose - just saying we were very different people (duh!!) and she accepted of course. I just couldn't stand her drama anymore.

I brought up this anecdote with the therapist who diagnosed me two years later, and then IT ALL MADE SENSE...and I also connected the dots with others who'd complained (either to third parties that I got word from, or to me) that I had some passive-aggressive personality disorder. Which, of course, is a very toxic type of person (I had a former housemate who was totally PAPD and a covert narcissist, he was toxic incarnate! )



funeralxempire
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26 Jun 2021, 10:36 pm

No, but they probably could have at points in my life.


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cyberdad
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26 Jun 2021, 10:46 pm

Jayo wrote:
I she lashed out at me with "Come on Jayo, I'm not one of your little b***ches that you can treat this way!!" - this made no sense at all to me, but then running it by one of my more enlightened NT friends, he surmised that she must've thought of me as the stereotypical alpha male "stud" who could just treat women as he pleased due to having options, i.e. he picked up the hints but he just didn't give a damn.

she regarded me as TOXIC. Because, in her mind and life experience (she too was 25), this sort of behaviour is much more common in the 20-something male population than "clinical cluelessness". So she was just using heuristics, you might say. 8O


Two questions
1) what behaviour triggered her response?
2) Why did she think you treated women this way in the past?



ezbzbfcg2
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26 Jun 2021, 10:54 pm

Since NTs tend to operate on these "hints," they find it bewildering and downright impossible that some people can't comprehend them. So, they assume the Aspie knows what's being communicated, but is deliberately ignoring/disregarding what they see as universally obvious.

This justifies their own toxic behavior toward the Aspie, as the NT thinks the Aspie "deserves" the mistreatment as comeuppance.



Edna3362
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27 Jun 2021, 12:19 am

I notice only one pattern as to why one would call me toxic in any way at all;

It's not merely about being an aspie, but one trait of: ridigity. Or at least, that's the main component.
And definitely can resemble like narcissism.

It happens in act of overreaction, reactive rigidity.

It happens when I'm too upset over the idea of something and unable to control or get rid of emotions or get over at situations at the moment.


It doesn't define me. Because it's inconsistent.
Also I hate it when it happens -- other than out of uncontrolled emotions, it also done out of misperception.

Worse if it looked like it's about me or something -- I'm aware enough to be sick of myself.

People who knew me are aware enough it's a random moment than something to watch out for.


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cyberdad
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27 Jun 2021, 1:43 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
So, they assume the Aspie knows what's being communicated, but is deliberately ignoring/disregarding what they see as universally obvious.


I don't think that's what the OP is saying, The girl is being toxic because she assumes the OP is a toxic alpha male and if anything she has normalised her assumption about his behaviour which the OP has stated is not true.



MushroomPrincess
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27 Jun 2021, 3:22 am

Jayo wrote:
I realize that us "Aspies" are not inherently toxic folks, like say a narcissist, or control freak, or a histrionic or Type-A personality or what-have-you...


Uh. I have a Cluster B* personality disorder, and I'm more than a little miffed that you think we're all "inherently toxic." Yes I've been called "toxic," by people who disrespect me and are surprised when I don't let them get away with it.

*the group that includes narcissistic, histrionic, antisocial, and borderline personality disorders



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27 Jun 2021, 7:35 pm

No I haven't been called toxic yet. Maybe that's a treat in store. But it's hard to see how they could make the label stick. I very rarely interfere with anybody's life. I just get on with my own life and if somebody's friendly and I've got the time, they can talk to me and I'll talk to them. If it's not clear I'm wanted then I'll usually keep my nose out. I tend to be a tad critical so if for example a meme turns up on my Facebook newsfeed page that I don't agree with, I might say so, and that might annoy the people who are saying "oh yes, how true that is," but even then I'm usually pretty careful to break it to them gently that I disagree. I've no wish to hurt anybody's feelings unless it's pretty clear they're being horrible. So anybody looking for somebody to call toxic or harmful, there are better targets than me.

It seems a bit of a silly criticism anyway, being so sweeping, "you're the kind of person who poisons everybody else." I mean if it's really that bad, what's the point saying anything to them at all? If it's not that bad, then isolate the behaviour you don't like and make a specific, objective complaint about that exact behaviour - "when you did that I felt annoyed because......." or "do you think you could tone that down a bit, it's getting on my nerves." But "you are toxic" ? Hardly constructive criticism is it? Not the kind of thing anybody would say if they genuinely wanted to resolve a problem, more the kind of thing somebody would say as a put-down.



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28 Jun 2021, 8:14 am

Jayo wrote:
Has anyone described you as "toxic"?
Only after outing another male as toxic.  It seems that even toxic males have fans and loyal followers.


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IsabellaLinton
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28 Jun 2021, 9:05 am

Not that I'm aware of, but someone said I had the emotional capacity of a gnat.


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Jayo
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28 Jun 2021, 7:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
Jayo wrote:
Has anyone described you as "toxic"?
Only after outing another male as toxic.  It seems that even toxic males have fans and loyal followers.


Funny, that last statement summed up Hitler pretty well :P



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28 Jun 2021, 8:08 pm

I used to know a woman that I thought was an as*hole, but now I think maybe she was genuinely unaware of the situation?

It has nothing do do with social hints though. For example, she would park her car in an "as*hole way", taking two spaces at once, in a very full parking lot where those two spaces are the last ones. There are a lot of examples of this behavior from her, and everyome really hated her, but somehow she wasnt even aware how much hated she was?... She wasn't a typical b***h, she was very awkward, standing too close to people, staring in their eyes, going on about her own topics...

But again, this is not some hard-to-pick cueues... is that an aspie trait too, to miss the whole situation? As obvious as two last parking spaces???



Benjamin the Donkey
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28 Jun 2021, 8:25 pm

There have been many times when people (especially women, especially when I was younger) thought I was uncaring or even cruel, when in fact I was just oblivious.


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ToughDiamond
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28 Jun 2021, 9:22 pm

cornerpiece wrote:
I used to know a woman that I thought was an as*hole, but now I think maybe she was genuinely unaware of the situation?

It's tempting to think that everybody who is inconsiderate and causes problems for others knows full well what they're doing and just doesn't give a spit. But I think a lot of the time it's never really occurred to them, or they don't understand the degree of harm, offense and anger they cause. Sometimes upbringing teaches them that it's OK to disregard people's feelings. Sometimes national characteristics are part of it - some cultures think it's OK to push in, encroach, interrupt, dump rubbish in a neighbour's garden, disturb the peace, drive a hard economic bargain, compete for resources and hog the lot if they can, discriminate against women, immigrants, gays etc. Certainly not very many people are completely sold on equal rights and a mutually supportive love-and-peace community. A lot of people don't like nice people.



Fnord
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29 Jun 2021, 8:01 am

Jayo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jayo wrote:
Has anyone described you as "toxic"?
Only after outing another male as toxic.  It seems that even toxic males have fans and loyal followers.
Funny, that last statement summed up Hitler pretty well.
Or Donald J. Trump.


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Dear_one
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02 Jul 2021, 6:37 pm

I don't know if anyone has described me as toxic, because I don't get to hear the gossip.