Question if I am stupid for being learning disabled.

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FranzOren
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04 Jul 2021, 12:40 am

Makes sense.



cyberdad
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04 Jul 2021, 12:41 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Also, I'm willing to bet NTs are more willing to accept each others deflections unless they're intentionally being cruel or genuinely believe it's a big deal. When they're intentionally being polite they'll accept each other's deflections wholesale. That would explain why people who know their views will be labelled as bigotry accept each other's excuses for the views no matter how loose or weird they may be.


Indeed, just look at the QAnon and MAGA enterprises...



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 12:41 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

Hive mind is involuntary. It takes responsibility away from the NT.

I'm saying NTs make a conscious decision to groupthink. It's actually a psychological phenomena. Hive mind is not.

Interesting opinion, which you state as if you know to be true. Is there some consensus of experts in these matters regarding their exact definition that you can point me to, that would justify the absolute nature of your assertions? Thus far I see no distinction between hive mind and groupthink, and I never heard of any generally-accepted relationship between that concept (or those concepts, if you prefer) and responsibility. But perhaps you've seen some work on the matter that I haven't.


Unless you're assuming fuzzy language use is the same as stating a literal opinion.

Based on context it's fair to assume hivemind is being used as a synonym for group think and isn't referring to hivemind in some more literal but fantasy context.

Unless CD wants to correct me. :nerdy:


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FranzOren
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04 Jul 2021, 12:41 am

What are those companies?



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 12:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Also, I'm willing to bet NTs are more willing to accept each others deflections unless they're intentionally being cruel or genuinely believe it's a big deal. When they're intentionally being polite they'll accept each other's deflections wholesale. That would explain why people who know their views will be labelled as bigotry accept each other's excuses for the views no matter how loose or weird they may be.


Indeed, just look at the QAnon and MAGA enterprises...


Hey, I don't need to accept being wrong if I never accept being wrong. 8)


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cyberdad
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04 Jul 2021, 12:43 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

Hive mind is involuntary. It takes responsibility away from the NT.

I'm saying NTs make a conscious decision to groupthink. It's actually a psychological phenomena. Hive mind is not.

Interesting opinion, which you state as if you know to be true. Is there some consensus of experts in these matters regarding their exact definition that you can point me to, that would justify the absolute nature of your assertions? Thus far I see no distinction between hive mind and groupthink, and I never heard of any generally-accepted relationship between that concept (or those concepts, if you prefer) and responsibility. But perhaps you've seen some work on the matter that I haven't.


Unless you're assuming fuzzy language use is the same as stating a literal opinion.

Based on context it's fair to assume hivemind is being used as a synonym for group think and isn't referring to hivemind in some more literal but fantasy context.

Unless CD wants to correct me. :nerdy:


No carry on old boy...



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 12:44 am

FranzOren wrote:
What are those companies?


QAnon and MAGA aren't literal companies.

They're just loosely affiliated and overlapping groups of people tied together by political views, some of which are increasingly detached from reality.


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cyberdad
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04 Jul 2021, 12:45 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Also, I'm willing to bet NTs are more willing to accept each others deflections unless they're intentionally being cruel or genuinely believe it's a big deal. When they're intentionally being polite they'll accept each other's deflections wholesale. That would explain why people who know their views will be labelled as bigotry accept each other's excuses for the views no matter how loose or weird they may be.


Indeed, just look at the QAnon and MAGA enterprises...


Hey, I don't need to accept being wrong if I never accept being wrong. 8)


Actually you could throw NBA basketballers into that mix for believing in the earth is flat



FranzOren
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04 Jul 2021, 12:46 am

Interesting!



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 12:46 am

cyberdad wrote:
No carry on old boy...


I'm thirty seven six, I'm not old.

Sorry, I still have the script to Monty Python and the Holy Grail memorized. :nerdy:


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FranzOren
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04 Jul 2021, 12:47 am

Is that a programming language?



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 12:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
Actually you could throw NBA basketballers into that mix for believing in the earth is flat


Yup, or any other flat-earthers because it's not limited to one group.

Another example in the English speaking world would be sovereign citizens. It's a collection of beliefs, some of which are quite archaic but the current interpretation generally results in American (but although the ideology exists in Canada, Australia and the UK as well) citizens getting in gunfights with the police because they don't believe they're obliged to accept being detained.

This ideology is often but not exclusively aligned with white supremacist ideology. As an example of how it's not exclusively aligned with that, the recent stand-off in MA with a Moorish (black separatist, and other things) group is an example of that.

Overall the general idea is that you're able to exempt yourself from the sovereignty of the state (or Crown) and therefore be above the law and not subject to various basic legal responsibilities.


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FranzOren
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04 Jul 2021, 12:56 am

That is very interesting.



cyberdad
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04 Jul 2021, 1:03 am

funeralxempire wrote:
This ideology is often but not exclusively aligned with white supremacist ideology. As an example of how it's not exclusively aligned with that, the recent stand-off in MA with a Moorish (black separatist, and other things) group is an example of that.

Overall the general idea is that you're able to exempt yourself from the sovereignty of the state (or Crown) and therefore be above the law and not subject to various basic legal responsibilities.


Interesting. I often wonder about the role that religious refugees played in the early settlement of America (and even countries like South Africa). The puritanical religious cults persecuted in their homelands back in Europe founded new homelands and restarted their religious sects in the US and in South Africa.

Such groups would have uplifted the concept of being sovereign citizens to seperate themselves from regimes they escaped from,



funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 2:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
Such groups would have uplifted the concept of being sovereign citizens to seperate themselves from regimes they escaped from,


Or just been more likely to included people who believed in those views.

The separating from the regime might have occurred before they left and just played a role in why they left or were removed. It might even be multi-generational in the way my grandfather's distrust of the state plays a role in why me and my dad both distrust the state.


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funeralxempire
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04 Jul 2021, 3:16 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
This ideology is often but not exclusively aligned with white supremacist ideology. As an example of how it's not exclusively aligned with that, the recent stand-off in MA with a Moorish (black separatist, and other things) group is an example of that.

Overall the general idea is that you're able to exempt yourself from the sovereignty of the state (or Crown) and therefore be above the law and not subject to various basic legal responsibilities.


Interesting. I often wonder about the role that religious refugees played in the early settlement of America (and even countries like South Africa). The puritanical religious cults persecuted in their homelands back in Europe founded new homelands and restarted their religious sects in the US and in South Africa.

Such groups would have uplifted the concept of being sovereign citizens to seperate themselves from regimes they escaped from,


Afaik sovereign citizen ideology doesn't show up in South Africa; it also doesn't show up in the Caribbean.

It way predates the folks you're alluding to, it actually dates to the era of the Norman Conquest and misunderstandings of how the law existed during Anglo-Saxon times.

The same general ideals might have driven Manga Carta and were displayed among the fringes of the American Revolution (basically that era's Cliven Bundys). I've heard suggestions that the same ideals motivated early revolts in England, like the one lead by John Ball.

I've deep-dived it since I used to be sympathetic to some of the basic ideas when I was in my early 20s.


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