Transgender woman shows herself to other women at a spa

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Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 12:14 pm

A transgender woman who has not had bottom surgery showed herself to women in a spa. I personally feel that this is not a representation of all transgender women/men, and that it was disrespectful to the other patrons. Especially if children were present. Nobody should get naked in front of a child. Transgender or cisgender. I feel like everyone should have a little decency and cover up to not make strangers uncomfortable.. but, in this situation especially, the woman should have kept covered to prevent this, knowing that others will more than likely have this reaction. Women can have male genitalia.. but not everyone understands, and it is a touchy subject. Decency should have been displayed here.

How do you all feel about this?

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/wi-spa-video/



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01 Jul 2021, 12:19 pm

It is only one small step from "I did not commit indecent exposure to that woman because I identify as a woman myself" to "I did not commit rape of that woman because I identify as a woman myself".


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Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 12:23 pm

Fnord wrote:
It is only one small step from "I did not commit indecent exposure to that woman because I identify as a woman myself" to "I did not commit rape of that woman because I identify as a woman myself".


I support transgender rights, but this is a touchy subject, and situation. I think there should be rules about getting naked around strangers in general, and that would help to prevent this. I think that transgender women should be allowed in women’s locker rooms, but they need to have some decency and respect others. I was born a woman and I don’t get naked in front of other women in a locker room. To be fair, I try to avoid that situation in general because I’m gay and I’ve had bad experiences in high school with bullying in locker rooms, but that’s another story.



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01 Jul 2021, 12:53 pm

I'm pretty sure women can't have male genitalia.

I think it's a bit creepy too. Seems opportunistic to me rather than accidental exposure.



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01 Jul 2021, 12:57 pm

Dicey stuff.

I can understand people's reaction since they aren't used to that kind of exposure and it'd definitely take someone by surprise...but calls for segregation is waaaaaaay too far. And yes, that's what you're implying when you say "not here".

As something to consider, think about people who aren't heterosexual in a same-sex area where body exposure happens, like changing rooms and washrooms. The concern of gender-separated areas is sex crimes and grey areas that are hard to police. If we go by the rules alluded to by the complaints of people in that article and that you've mentioned, how are non-hetero people going to manage? I'm pansexual. Should I only be allowed to use single-person private spaces?

As far as discomfort goes, plenty of people feel discomfort sharing such private spaces with certain lgbt+ people, but that's not a valid excuse for segregation. Thankfully policing such a thing is more-or-less impossible, because it brings to light the proof that lgbt+ people being allowed in shared private spaces isn't going to result in widespread sex crimes.

A trans woman in a cis woman space is just as harmless as any cis woman.

Concerns of 'discomfort' aren't always valid. If a woman was ACTUALLY in danger of sexual assault, her discomfort would be totally valid and removing that person from her vicinity is justified. But do you know just how many women are discomforted by harmless guys with certain appearances? Imagine you did absolutely nothing wrong, and then getting slapped with restraining order after restraining order and being completely barred from places you've never even been, just because you were born with a particular face or body size. That's just f****d up.


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01 Jul 2021, 1:05 pm

I have shared locker-rooms and showers with other men, some of whom I have known (or suspected) were gay.  This never bothered me.  Sharing the same spaces with an apparent woman who is naked or getting naked would only provoke a natural and obvious reaction...

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Last edited by Fnord on 01 Jul 2021, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 1:08 pm

Nades wrote:
I'm pretty sure women can't have male genitalia.

I think it's a bit creepy too. Seems opportunistic to me rather than accidental exposure.


Ahh. Transgender women can have male genitalia. Nature sometimes gets things wrong, and someone’s biological body does not match their brain, and what it’s telling them they should be. Transgender women are aware they were born male, they’re aware that they have traditional male genitalia.. but they’re allowed to transition, and they’re allowed to alter their body to match their brain. I have no problem classifying them as women if they have male genitalia. But yes, you’re correct, biological women don’t have traditional penises, although intersex is a real thing you should look up.



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01 Jul 2021, 1:08 pm

Fnord wrote:
It is only one small step from "I did not commit indecent exposure to that woman because I identify as a woman myself" to "I did not commit rape of that woman because I identify as a woman myself".


Do women get a free pass for sexually assaulting women? Last I checked they didn't.


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Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 1:11 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have shared locker-rooms and showers with other men, some of whom I have known (or suspected) were gay.  This never bothered me.  Sharing the same spaces with an apparent woman who is naked or getting naked would only provoke a natural and obvious reaction...

Image


God bless America!



Would you have this reaction if a FTM transgender male were naked in a locker room, they looked like a male outwardly, but still had female bottom genitalia? Because I think that’s the only way you will see woman genitalia in a locker room, unless it’s unisex but I’ve never seen one.



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01 Jul 2021, 1:16 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have shared locker-rooms and showers with other men, some of whom I have known (or suspected) were gay.  This never bothered me.  Sharing the same spaces with an apparent woman who is naked or getting naked would only provoke a natural and obvious reaction...

Image


God bless America!
Would you have this reaction if a FTM transgender male were naked in a locker room, they looked like a male outwardly, but still had female bottom genitalia? Because I think that's the only way you will see woman genitalia in a locker room, unless it’s unisex but I’ve never seen one.
If the person looks like a female -- no matter how he/she identifies -- the person gets a salute, and that is all there is to it.

Of course, a person with female "junk" would have to be very brave (or starring in a porn video) to get naked in a men's locker room in the first place.


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Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 1:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have shared locker-rooms and showers with other men, some of whom I have known (or suspected) were gay.  This never bothered me.  Sharing the same spaces with an apparent woman who is naked or getting naked would only provoke a natural and obvious reaction...

Image


God bless America!
Would you have this reaction if a FTM transgender male were naked in a locker room, they looked like a male outwardly, but still had female bottom genitalia? Because I think that's the only way you will see woman genitalia in a locker room, unless it’s unisex but I’ve never seen one.
If the person looks like a female -- no matter how he/she identifies -- the person gets a salute, and that is all there is to it.

Of course, a person with female "junk" would have to be very brave (or starring in a porn video) to get naked in a men's locker room in the first place.


https://geneticliteracyproject.org/wp-c ... 62v3js.jpg

These are the kind of men I am talking about. More than likely with female genitalia. These are the kind of trans men you’d see in a male locker room. A woman or someone who looks like a woman wouldn’t be in a men’s locker room.



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01 Jul 2021, 1:21 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm pretty sure women can't have male genitalia.

I think it's a bit creepy too. Seems opportunistic to me rather than accidental exposure.


Ahh. Transgender women can have male genitalia. Nature sometimes gets things wrong, and someone’s biological body does not match their brain, and what it’s telling them they should be. Transgender women are aware they were born male, they’re aware that they have traditional male genitalia.. but they’re allowed to transition, and they’re allowed to alter their body to match their brain. I have no problem classifying them as women if they have male genitalia. But yes, you’re correct, biological women don’t have traditional penises, although intersex is a real thing you should look up.


Other than very rare genetic disorders which still doesn't really make anyone truly intersexed, people are either born male or female and people with not so good intentions like the guy in this article will try to take advantage of others assuming you can flip flop between genders.

Someone can have plastic surgery and hormone treatment and identify as a different gender and I'm OK with that as long as they're not being a moron to others about it but at the end of the day sex is written in someone's DNA and that is where the problem lies with people walking in and out of whatever changing rooms and toilets they like.



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01 Jul 2021, 1:27 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
... A woman or someone who looks like a woman wouldn’t be in a men’s locker room.
You really HAVE lived a sheltered life, have you not?

:lol:


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Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 1:30 pm

Nades wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm pretty sure women can't have male genitalia.

I think it's a bit creepy too. Seems opportunistic to me rather than accidental exposure.


Ahh. Transgender women can have male genitalia. Nature sometimes gets things wrong, and someone’s biological body does not match their brain, and what it’s telling them they should be. Transgender women are aware they were born male, they’re aware that they have traditional male genitalia.. but they’re allowed to transition, and they’re allowed to alter their body to match their brain. I have no problem classifying them as women if they have male genitalia. But yes, you’re correct, biological women don’t have traditional penises, although intersex is a real thing you should look up.


Other than very rare genetic disorders which still doesn't really make anyone truly intersexed, people are either born male or female and people with not so good intentions like the guy in this article will try to take advantage of others assuming you can flip flop between genders.

Someone can have plastic surgery and hormone treatment and identify as a different gender and I'm OK with that as long as they're not being a moron to others about it but at the end of the day sex is written in someone's DNA and that is where the problem lies with people walking in and out of whatever changing rooms and toilets they like.


I respect your opinion. It’s a difficult topic, because being transgender is real, and those feelings are real and denying someone the right to alter their body to present how they feel inside is cruel. Once we allow them to alter their body, if we make them use the bathroom that aligns with their DNA then we will have female presenting women in the men’s bathroom, and male presenting men in the Women’s restroom, and that will cause issues. I’ve seen MTF and FTM transgender people who were indistinguishable from biological females/males. I think that people should mind their own business, and no one should be showing themselves to anyone regardless if they are transgender or cisgendered. I personally don’t care much about who I’m sharing a public bathroom with.. I’ve shared a work bathroom with a transgender women for years. They sit to pee, wash their hands, and walk out.. Allowing someone with a full beard (as an example), in men’s clothing to say they’re a woman to get into a women’s bathroom is absolutely ridiculous and should be policed. I also cannot imagine that happening often.



Last edited by Brainiac42 on 01 Jul 2021, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brainiac42
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01 Jul 2021, 1:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
... A woman or someone who looks like a woman wouldn’t be in a men’s locker room.
You really HAVE lived a sheltered life, have you not?

:lol:


I’m younger than you. I’m willing to learn from your wisdom. Can you elaborate on what you mean please?



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01 Jul 2021, 1:38 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
Nades wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm pretty sure women can't have male genitalia.

I think it's a bit creepy too. Seems opportunistic to me rather than accidental exposure.


Ahh. Transgender women can have male genitalia. Nature sometimes gets things wrong, and someone’s biological body does not match their brain, and what it’s telling them they should be. Transgender women are aware they were born male, they’re aware that they have traditional male genitalia.. but they’re allowed to transition, and they’re allowed to alter their body to match their brain. I have no problem classifying them as women if they have male genitalia. But yes, you’re correct, biological women don’t have traditional penises, although intersex is a real thing you should look up.


Other than very rare genetic disorders which still doesn't really make anyone truly intersexed, people are either born male or female and people with not so good intentions like the guy in this article will try to take advantage of others assuming you can flip flop between genders.

Someone can have plastic surgery and hormone treatment and identify as a different gender and I'm OK with that as long as they're not being a moron to others about it but at the end of the day sex is written in someone's DNA and that is where the problem lies with people walking in and out of whatever changing rooms and toilets they like.


I respect your opinion. It’s a difficult topic, because being transgender is real, and those feelings are real and denying someone the right to alter their body to present how they feel inside is cruel. Once we allow them to alter their body, if we make them use the bathroom that aligns with their DNA then we will have female presenting women in the men’s bathroom, and male presenting men in the Women’s restroom, and that will cause issues. I’ve seen MTF and FTM transgender people who were indistinguishable from biological females/males. I think that people should mind their own business, and no one should be showing themselves to anyone regardless if they are transgender or cisgendered. I personally don’t care much about who I’m sharing a public bathroom with.. I’ve shared a work bathroom with a transgender women for years. They sit to pee, wash their hands, and walk out.. Allowing someone with a full beard (as an example), in men’s clothing to say they’re a woman to get into a women’s bathroom is absolutely ridiculous and should be policed. I also cannot imagine that happening often.


It's tricky and some do a very good job appearing like the gender they want to become but no amount of surgery or hormones can truly change someone's gender and everyone knows it. Unfortunately surgery and hormone treatment for changing gender is about as effective as surgery for curing Downs syndrome. Were talking about the presence (or lack of) entire chromosomes after all.

It doesn't really bother me personally who's in the public bathrooms with me too but for many it's a big deal and women in particular might be vulnerable to the p**s takers like the one in this article.