Capital Gazette mass murderer’s ASD in dispute at trial

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Fnord
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12 Jul 2021, 4:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.
Mentioning as relevant doesn't mean the intention is to free the defendant from any and all responsibility.  Claiming this to be the case doesn't make it the case.
Then why mention it at all?  May as well mention the defendant's blood type too.


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funeralxempire
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12 Jul 2021, 4:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.
Mentioning as relevant doesn't mean the intention is to free the defendant from any and all responsibility.  Claiming this to be the case doesn't make it the case.
Then why mention it at all?  May as well mention the defendant's blood type too.


The same reason the mention mental illness and other relevant factors are brought up. Sometimes a defendant should be sent for treatment that isn't prison, but that outcome is hardly a get out of jail free card and it's mindless to trot that meme out every time a criminal case involving an autistic person comes up.


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Fnord
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12 Jul 2021, 5:02 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.
Mentioning as relevant doesn't mean the intention is to free the defendant from any and all responsibility.  Claiming this to be the case doesn't make it the case.
Then why mention it at all?  May as well mention the defendant's blood type too.
The same reason the mention mental illness and other relevant factors are brought up. Sometimes a defendant should be sent for treatment that isn't prison, but that outcome is hardly a get out of jail free card and it's mindless to trot that meme out every time a criminal case involving an autistic person comes up.
Sure, that makes sense, except that autism is not classified as a mental illness.


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funeralxempire
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12 Jul 2021, 5:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.
Mentioning as relevant doesn't mean the intention is to free the defendant from any and all responsibility.  Claiming this to be the case doesn't make it the case.
Then why mention it at all?  May as well mention the defendant's blood type too.
The same reason the mention mental illness and other relevant factors are brought up. Sometimes a defendant should be sent for treatment that isn't prison, but that outcome is hardly a get out of jail free card and it's mindless to trot that meme out every time a criminal case involving an autistic person comes up.
Sure, that makes sense, except that autism is not classified as a mental illness.


It still might be relevant for determining appropriate sentencing, mental illness isn't the only factor that might ever need to be considered.

It will never lead to an acquittal with no further consequences so it isn't a get of jail card so someone who wishes to be viewed as honest wouldn't try to imply that it is a get out of jail card. That's the issue, those are the goalposts and you're not moving them.


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13 Jul 2021, 6:26 pm

Psychiatrist: Newspaper Gunman ‘Took Pleasure' in Killing

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The man who killed five people at a Maryland newspaper understood the criminality of his actions at the time of the attack, a forensic psychiatrist who is a witness for prosecutors told a jury Tuesday while rejecting his insanity plea.

As prosecutors neared the end of their case in a trial to determine whether Jarrod Ramos is criminally responsible, Dr. Gregory Saathoff cited written statements Ramos made “relating to his intent to cripple the Capital Gazette as he felt he had been crippled” by a 2011 article the newspaper published about him.

Saathoff said Ramos had a longstanding grievance against the newspaper, meticulously planned for the 2018 attack and hoped to establish a personal legacy through the mass shooting.

“My opinion is that Mr. Ramos is criminally responsible for the events of June 28, 2018,” Saathoff, a University of Virginia professor who also is a psychiatric consultant for the FBI, said.

Saathoff testified about letters Ramos sent on the day of the shooting that claim credit for the attack and articulate a motive. In one of them, written to Judge Charles Moylan who had rejected his last appeal, Ramos wrote: “welcome Mr. Moylan to your unexpected legacy. YOU should have died.”

“It is written and sent on the day of the incident such that it would not arrive through regular mail for a number of days,” Saathoff said. "The significance of this to me is that it demonstrated an appreciation of the criminality of the conduct in that it was sent at a time that would not have alerted Judge Moylan or anyone else.”

Matthew Connell, one of Ramos' lawyers, noted during cross-examination that the letter from Ramos mentions Moylan's legacy, not his own. Saathoff, however, cited previous statements by Ramos' sister that it was an interest of his that dated back a number of years.

“She indicated that he was very firm about that," Saathoff said.

As part of his report, Saathoff read an evaluation by Dr. Sameer Patel, a state psychiatrist who interviewed Ramos and found him to be legally sane.

Saathoff testified about a trip Ramos made to the newsroom in February 2017, when Ramos went inside for reconnaissance. Saathoff said Patel's report says Ramos decided he should not buy a shotgun for the attack until he had done the reconnaissance, in case he ended up getting arrested for trespassing.

Saathoff said that fact illustrated Ramos' ability to appreciate the criminality of a future event and his ability to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law.


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15 Jul 2021, 8:07 am

Capital Gazette shooter's insanity case rests on autism diagnosis. Why it concerns advocates

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The man who killed five people inside a Maryland newsroom is claiming that autism spectrum disorder is one reason he should not be held criminally responsible for the 2018 mass shooting.

It's an unusual legal argument as the trial heads into its third week Monday. It's also one that threatens to unfairly stigmatize people living with autism, advocates told the USA TODAY Network's Maryland Capital Bureau.

Claiming a defendant is not criminally responsible is Maryland's version of the insanity defense.

Autism shouldn't be part of that argument in this case, said Sam Crane, the legal director for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, a national group based in Washington D.C.

“Autism doesn't in any way interfere with a person's ability to understand that it's wrong to kill people," Crane said. "In fact, a lot of autistic people are extremely empathetic."

Raising autism spectrum disorder at a mass shooter's trial could create the inaccurate perception that autism is linked with violence, she said.

It is something that we have grave concerns about," Crane said. "There is a possibility that it could result in serious stigma against autistic people and misperceptions that autistic people pose a danger that we don't actually pose."

Christopher Banks, the president of the Autism Society of America, called the legal argument "dangerous."

"The Autism Society of America advocates every day for acceptance and inclusion for autistic individuals to fully participate in society to achieve meaningful, quality lives," Banks said in a statement.

"Dangerous arguments like this threaten to further promote stigmas and violence against people with autism, and disrupt all that we and other disability organizations work towards," he said.

Ramos's sanity trial has been unusual from the start.

It's rare for criminal defendants to pursue an insanity defense. It's even more uncommon for that claim to go before a jury.

Raising autism spectrum disorder as part of that defense is more unusual still, said Amanda Pustilnik, a professor at the University of Maryland School of Law who studies the brain.

“Autism spectrum disorders are not associated with violent behavior," Pustilnik said. "They are not even associated with law-breaking behavior."

That's a risky argument, Pustilnik said. Whether or not Ramos can understand the feelings of other people isn't relevant to whether he could understand his actions were criminal, she said.

"I think there's a real risk in making the case to a jury or to a judge that a person is so emotionally impaired that he's incapable of understanding that murder causes sadness," Pustilnik said.

It's also an argument that could be dangerous for people with autism, said Crane, the legal director for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network.

If members of the public falsely believe that people with autism are dangerous, they might be more likely to call the police if they see someone whose behavior they don't understand.

"That could particularly harm autistic people of color," Crane said. "We already know that autistic people of color are often subject to police calls because they're acting differently out in public."

Those police calls have resulted in serious injuries and death," she said.

Crane believes it is becoming more common for mass killers to claim a link with autism, a trend that she thinks is related to the stereotype of perpetrators who are socially isolated.


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15 Jul 2021, 11:04 pm

Jury finds Jarrod Ramos criminally responsible in Capital Gazette mass shooting

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A jury on Thursday found the gunman who killed five people at a Maryland newspaper criminally responsible for his actions, rejecting defense attorneys' mental illness arguments.

The jury needed less than two hours to find that Jarrod Ramos could understand the criminality of his actions and conform his conduct to the requirements of the law when he attacked the Capital Gazette newsroom in 2018.

The verdict means Ramos, 41, will be sentenced to prison, not a maximum-security mental health facility, for one of the deadliest attacks on journalists in the U.S. Prosecutors are seeking five life sentences without the possibility of parole.

Survivors and family members of victims, some with tears in their eyes, embraced outside the courtroom and applauded prosecutors and jurors as they walked by after the verdict.

Judge Michael Wachs did not set a date for sentencing, but estimated it would take place in about two months.

Ramos already had pleaded guilty to all 23 counts against him in 2019 but pleaded not criminally responsible -- Maryland's version of an insanity plea.

Anne Colt Leitess, the Anne Arundel County state's attorney, said that although Ramos has personality disorders like narcissism, he does not have serious mental illness that would have qualified him to be found not criminally responsible for five murders.

Leitess told the jury that Ramos thought he was smarter than everyone else, and his repeated losses in court were "too much for him to bear, and so he started plotting his revenge." Leitess also said Ramos was concerned the article about him harassing his former classmate would hinder his ability to get dates.

After the verdict, Leitess expressed satisfaction with the outcome.

"This means everything to the community. I'm just so happy that I was able to bring justice for the family members and the survivors, and that Mr. Ramos will be held criminally responsible for his crimes," she said.


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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman