Capital Gazette mass murderer’s ASD in dispute at trial

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ASPartOfMe
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03 Jul 2021, 8:30 am

Neurologist testifies gunman has autism spectrum disorder; prosecutors dispute diagnosis credibility

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A neurologist testified Friday afternoon that the man who murdered five Capital Gazette employees has autism spectrum disorder, one of the diagnoses his defense attorneys are basing his insanity claims on.

The gunman who fatally shot Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith and Wendi Winters falls at the mild to moderate end of the developmental disorder’s continuum, the doctor said.

Apart from being awkward, Dr. Thomas Hyde said, that means Jarrod Ramos may have seemed normal to people he encountered. Hyde said Ramos does not have any intellectual impairment, which sometimes accompanies autism, but struggled with the social aspects of life — a hallmark of the disorder.

His testimony brought to a close the first week of Ramos’ sanity trial. Ramos, 41, was already convicted of the murders but his attorneys maintain he is not criminally responsible because of a mental disorder that prevented him from understanding his actions were illegal and being able to behave according to the law.

The chief medical officer for the Lieber Institute for Brain Development, a Baltimore-based nonprofit dedicated to researching developmental disorders, Hyde also does forensic neurologic evaluations. Hyde testified he met with the gunman twice and talked to his sister on the phone — a total of four hours of work — to come up with his diagnosis.
Prosecutors dispute Ramos has autism and contend he committed the mass shooting as revenge for Ramos’ belief the Annapolis newspaper tarnished his reputation.

Hyde testified Friday that he reviewed nothing about the shooting and, few, if any, records from Ramos’ past. Hyde met with Ramos and diagnosed him like a treating physician. His time with the gunman led him to notice Ramos was rigid, struggled with social cues and lacked empathy.
“He showed a remarkable lack of emotion,” Hyde said.

Hyde said Ramos thinks in “very concrete terms,” prefers a rigid routine to the point that he likes jail, becomes obsessed with things and walked with a stiff gait — all evidence of his autism, according to the doctor. He added Ramos led a “very constricted social life,” and never had an intimate relationship or close friends. He preferred isolation.

Assistant State’s Attorney David Russell questioned Hyde’s sources of information, highlighting that the doctor only talked to Ramos and his sister, Michelle Jeans, before coming to a diagnosis. Russell also emphasized that Ramos claimed in interviews with other psychiatrists to have friends as a child, joined a chess club, a running team and earned a nickname, Gizmo, while hiking the Appalachian Trail.

But Hyde said evaluating ASD requires nuance; it’s not an “all or nothing phenomenon.” People with autism can have relationships and laugh at jokes, he said.

In April, he administered the autism-spectrum quotient for Ramos and said his scores confirmed his diagnosis of autism.

Russell questioned whether someone intelligent such as Ramos could get access to the test and respond to support an autism diagnosis. He asked if Hyde was concerned Ramos duped him.
“Would you agree or disagree that the fact he’s on trial for a mass shooting would have some effect on his answers?” Russell asked.

Hyde said he took it into consideration but saw no suggestion of fabrication.


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Jiheisho
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03 Jul 2021, 10:18 am

Not sure how I feel about that. Why does being in a chess club (and seriously, I was in a chess club, it was not where the cool kids hung out), on the running team, and an AMT hiker invalidate the ASD diagnosis? There are other dubious claims to invalidate that assessment.

On the other hand, ASD is not insanity. Now, the defense's job is to advocate for their client, but the prosecution has a better counter argument like a developmental disorder does not lead to not knowing the difference between right and wrong. Sure, I do things that are socially inappropriate, but not to the extent I take a gun and murder someone.



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07 Jul 2021, 8:28 am

Expert: Newspaper gunman is autistic and delusional with OCD

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The man who killed five people at a Maryland newspaper suffers from autism, obsessive compulsive disorder and delusional disorder, a mental health expert retained by his attorneys testified Tuesday during a trial to determine whether he is criminally responsible due to insanity.

Dr. Catherine Yeager was the second mental health expert to testify about disorders that attorneys say afflict Jarrod Ramos in a case that will largely be a battle between mental health experts.

Yeager, a clinical psychologist, gave examples in court of how the disorders have shown themselves in Ramos over the years, based on screenings and evaluations during 15 hours of interviews over three days with him, a phone conversation with a former friend and Ramos’ sister.

Some of the examples Yeager cited came from the 41-year-old’s years in elementary school, when a friend described him as a “rigid thinker” who tended to dress the same way every day and lined up action figures meticulously.

The friend also knew Ramos when he returned for high school after a period of living in England with his family, Yeager said. The friend described Ramos as a changed person who would go on “ranting about different things.”

She also testified of about 20 rituals or obsessive thoughts that Ramos described to her. Yeager said Ramos told her that in high school he felt painfully aware of his presence around other people – and felt he was somehow infringing on other people in face-to-face encounters. As a result, he avoided being around people.

“What he said to me was, in high school when he was out of a person’s presence, he felt relief,” Yeager said.

In what she described as one of the more bizarre examples, Yeager said he told her during an interview with her and colleague, Dr. Dorothy Lewis, that he has an automatic thought process of symmetry, so when he speaks to people their noses have to line up as an equilateral triangle.

“So that gives you an example of a very irrational obsession,” Yeager said.

Ramos also told Yeager he has a fear of filth and germs that he believes started when he was a young adult, and he spoke of a ritual he goes through when he showers.


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07 Jul 2021, 8:41 am

Quote:
Neurologist testifies gunman has autism spectrum disorder; prosecutors dispute diagnosis credibility.
That headline should read...

"Defense offers a neurologist's testimony as a Get Out Of Jail Free card; prosecution does not agree."


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08 Jul 2021, 6:30 am

Capital Gazette shooting trial updates: Lead defense expert to explain why she thinks gunman not criminally responsible

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The defense’s key psychiatric expert, Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis, is expected to finish testifying to her opinion that the gunman who killed five Capital Gazette employees had devolved into a delusion that took over his life and drove him to commit his crime.
Lewis, who has dedicated her career to the study of murderers, and her longtime colleague, Dr. Catherine Yeager, were hired by the team of lawyers representing the man who fatally shot Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith and Wendi Winters on June 28, 2018.

The central theme of Jarrod Ramos’ delusions, Yeager testified Tuesday, was that he was being persecuted by a conspiracy which grew in his head to include the Capital Gazette and the woman who Ramos harassed — the criminal case which the paper wrote about; the lawyers of the newspaper and the woman; the State’s Attorney’s Office and the Maryland Judiciary.

On Wednesday, Lewis described Ramos’ inability to recognize his and other people’s feelings and his failure to understand the gravity of his crime as a “dangerous” combination.

What to expect today:
Defense attorneys and prosecutors hope to wrap up Lewis’ testimony. At that point, prosecutors will present opening arguments and start calling their witnesses.
Lewis is expected to elaborate on her evaluation that Ramos is not criminally responsibly by reason of insanity. Lewis interviewed Ramos for a total of 17 hours and examined scores of records related to his past. Her findings conflict with the opinion of experts hired by the state, and prosecutors are expected to scrutinize her opinion during cross-examination.


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09 Jul 2021, 7:40 am

Prosecutors to start calling witnesses to discredit gunman’s insanity defense

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Prosecutors will begin calling to the stand Friday police officers who responded to the mass shooting in the Capital Gazette newsroom and the survivors who saw their friends die during it.

Defense attorneys representing the gunman who killed Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith and Wendi Winters rest their case Thursday. Top expert mental health witness Dorothy Otnow Lewis described Jarrod Ramos, 41, as consumed by persecutory delusions and convinced the only way to achieve justice against the newspaper and the courts, which he believed were conspiring against him, was to kill.

State’s Attorney Anne Colt Leitess emphasized in opening arguments that’s just because Ramos has a mental disorder does not mean he’s not criminally responsible. Dr. Sameer Patel, a forensic psychiatrist with the Maryland Department of Health ordered by the court to evaluate Ramos, found him to be sane.

Ramos didn’t gun down newsroom employees to expose the collusion he believed the newspaper and judicial system took part in, Leitess said, but to cause as much mayhem and death as possible. Ramos wanted to punish the paper for an article it published about his harassment conviction because he believed it ruined his romantic chances with women, Leitess.

“This case is about revenge by a person who had a well planned out scheme,” she said in opening arguments.


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09 Jul 2021, 9:53 am

Yeah, autism is not insanity.

At the same time, there have been a few people on autism forums that I just wonder how long before they do the big violence thing. "He was a loner." "Didn't have any friends." "Disgruntled former employee" etc.


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11 Jul 2021, 2:54 pm

Boo hoo, he's been convicted, lock him up and throw away the key



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11 Jul 2021, 3:02 pm

Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.


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11 Jul 2021, 3:09 pm

So kind of seems like the only conspiracy against him was due to him harassing people and figured it was not ok for people to not want his harassment so he murdered them.

I am not seeing a good insanity defense there.


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11 Jul 2021, 8:29 pm

Demonique wrote:
Boo hoo, he's been convicted, lock him up and throw away the key

He has not been convicted, his trial is ongoing.


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12 Jul 2021, 4:09 pm

Mental health experts give differing opinions during Capital Gazette mass shooter trial

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The battle of the experts continued in court Monday for day nine of the Capital Gazette mass shooter trial.

The state’s first mental health expert disagreed with the defense’s experts, testifying that the gunman Jarrod Ramos’ disorders are personality related and not psychotic.

Psychologist Marshall Cowan, who works at Clifton T. Perkins Hospital Center, Maryland’s maximum security psychiatric facility, was accepted as an expert witness for the state. He was assigned to perform a psychological evaluation of the defendant because another state’s witness asked for a second opinion.

Cowan spent eight hours with Ramos, using several tests and conversations and diagnosed him with Schizotypal personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder, with obsessive compulsive personality disorder traits. He did not find any evidence that the defendant was exaggerating symptoms.

Cowan reported issues with thinking and interacting with other people, a tendency to isolate and be suspicious and a sense of guarded-ness. Cowan said Ramos was odd in his presentation and in some cases, over forth coming. He had endorsed paranoia about the court system and the people involved in his lawsuit.

He said he ruled out psychotic disorders, saying Ramos had overvalued ideas but not delusions. He disagreed with the defense experts that he has autism spectrum disorder, saying it would be difficult to diagnose a 39-year-old man with autism. Cowan said Ramos denied having compulsions like described with OCD.

He said he doesn’t want to over-pathologize people and he looks for the easiest diagnosis that best explains the behaviors and that is the two personality disorders.

Dr. Gregory Saathoff was the state’s last witness for the day, accepted as an expert forensic psychiatrist.

He also did not evaluate Ramos, but he has access to more information than Bender to make his assessment, including videos of Ramos after his arrest, a tour of his cell and interviews with jail staff, as well as the other expert reports from the state and defense. He also interviewed Ramos’ sister for two hours.

He noted that the defense experts gave an excessive reliance on what Ramos told them instead of corroborating his statements. He said the experts came to conclusions about his diagnosis that no other mental health professional who evaluated him came to, based on unverified statements.

For instance, he told defense experts that he compulsively pulled out his eyebrows. Saathoff was not able to find any evidence of that.

The trial will pick back up Tuesday with the Dr. Saathoff.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 12 Jul 2021, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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12 Jul 2021, 4:16 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.

Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.


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funeralxempire
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12 Jul 2021, 4:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.

Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.


How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.


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12 Jul 2021, 4:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.


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funeralxempire
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12 Jul 2021, 4:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Since when has a suspects autism actually amounted to a get out of jail free card? At best it's only ever amounted to an additional piece of context worth considering when deciding how to hold someone accountable.
Since never.  However, it is the attempt to do so that sucks.  Even that much serves to perpetuate the myth that we are all one rejection away from becoming mass murderers.
How exactly are they attempting that? I see this claim often made but never substantiated.
Citing the defendant's ASD as a possible mitigating factor during the examination, trial, or sentencing phases.


And...

Mentioning as relevant doesn't mean the intention is to free the defendant from any and all responsibility.
Claiming this to be the case doesn't make it the case.


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う