Anyone afraid to take the covid vaccine because of Fauchi?

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ToughDiamond
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08 Jul 2021, 2:20 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The healthcare system is not overwhelmed. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching, transmitting or dying from Covid so what is the point?

In the UK the healthcare system got so overloaded with Covid cases that there's still a backlog for everything else that will take years to clear. USA healthcare was less affected, presumably because it's more of a rich man's healthcare system in the USA.

The vaccine mostly does stop you dying from Covid. It also significantly reduces transmission. I don't know where you got your "information" from, but it's completely out of whack with reality.



magz
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08 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the politicians are the ones controlling the science, doesn't that put the trust in question if one does not trust politicians?
Politicians do not control science. Most are not scientists. They rarely understand science at all. What they do understand they either misrepresent for their own purposes or claim to be false.

Science is self-correcting, while politics piles mistake upon mistake upon mistake ... ad infinitum.

Follow the money. The scientific community can be bought and sold and often are pawns of the ruling class. Ultimately its all about wealth and power.
Trump seemed to think that way. It didn't work.
It turned out he couldn't buy science results nor the 30 000 votes when he suddenly needed them.
Sometimes something is actually about truth, not power.


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Mr Reynholm
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08 Jul 2021, 2:53 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
The healthcare system is not overwhelmed. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching, transmitting or dying from Covid so what is the point?

In the UK the healthcare system got so overloaded with Covid cases that there's still a backlog for everything else that will take years to clear. USA healthcare was less affected, presumably because it's more of a rich man's healthcare system in the USA.

The vaccine mostly does stop you dying from Covid. It also significantly reduces transmission. I don't know where you got your "information" from, but it's completely out of whack with reality.

Yeah but you guys have inefficient socialized health care where people are on waiting lists for years. No wonder it was overwhelmed they're probably still trying to get to the Pre-Covid appointments.



Mr Reynholm
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08 Jul 2021, 2:54 pm

magz wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the politicians are the ones controlling the science, doesn't that put the trust in question if one does not trust politicians?
Politicians do not control science. Most are not scientists. They rarely understand science at all. What they do understand they either misrepresent for their own purposes or claim to be false.

Science is self-correcting, while politics piles mistake upon mistake upon mistake ... ad infinitum.

Follow the money. The scientific community can be bought and sold and often are pawns of the ruling class. Ultimately its all about wealth and power.
Trump seemed to think that way. It didn't work.
It turned out he couldn't buy science results nor the 30 000 votes when he suddenly needed them.
Sometimes something is actually about truth, not power.

Trump is not part of the ruling class. He was an anomaly in the DC.



magz
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08 Jul 2021, 3:01 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
magz wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the politicians are the ones controlling the science, doesn't that put the trust in question if one does not trust politicians?
Politicians do not control science. Most are not scientists. They rarely understand science at all. What they do understand they either misrepresent for their own purposes or claim to be false.

Science is self-correcting, while politics piles mistake upon mistake upon mistake ... ad infinitum.

Follow the money. The scientific community can be bought and sold and often are pawns of the ruling class. Ultimately its all about wealth and power.
Trump seemed to think that way. It didn't work.
It turned out he couldn't buy science results nor the 30 000 votes when he suddenly needed them.
Sometimes something is actually about truth, not power.

Trump is not part of the ruling class. He was an anomaly in the DC.

So? You just claimed that "the scientific community can be bought and sold". Why couldn't he do it when he needed? He has a lot of money and he did have a lot of power at the time.


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Mr Reynholm
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08 Jul 2021, 3:55 pm

magz wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
magz wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the politicians are the ones controlling the science, doesn't that put the trust in question if one does not trust politicians?
Politicians do not control science. Most are not scientists. They rarely understand science at all. What they do understand they either misrepresent for their own purposes or claim to be false.

Science is self-correcting, while politics piles mistake upon mistake upon mistake ... ad infinitum.

Follow the money. The scientific community can be bought and sold and often are pawns of the ruling class. Ultimately its all about wealth and power.
Trump seemed to think that way. It didn't work.
It turned out he couldn't buy science results nor the 30 000 votes when he suddenly needed them.
Sometimes something is actually about truth, not power.

Trump is not part of the ruling class. He was an anomaly in the DC.

So? You just claimed that "the scientific community can be bought and sold". Why couldn't he do it when he needed? He has a lot of money and he did have a lot of power at the time.

Because the DC elite, the media and all of their minions hate Trump. He is not a part of the system.



magz
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08 Jul 2021, 4:04 pm

So, can they be bought and sold or not?


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ToughDiamond
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08 Jul 2021, 4:24 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Yeah but you guys have inefficient socialized health care where people are on waiting lists for years. No wonder it was overwhelmed they're probably still trying to get to the Pre-Covid appointments.

No, inefficient would be low return on investment. The UK spends half as much per person on healthcare as the US, for better life expectancy, lower infant mortality, that sort of thing. The NHS commands better prices from the pharmaceutical industry than the fragmented US insurance companies can. Economy of scale. When I earned an average wage I was paying about £800 a year national insurance. Now I'm retired I pay nothing. UK patients have to wait for treatment sometimes, while US patients simply don't get treated at all because they don't have the money. And the NHS would never have got so overstretched if Boris hadn't decided to delay the first lockdown and to open back up too soon.



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08 Jul 2021, 5:34 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I don't trust Fauci. He is a bureaucrat touting the party line for his employers.
Did you get the vaccine anyway?  Trump also hates Fauci; but even Trump (and his family) got the vaccine.
That doesn't concern me.
OK. Did you get the vaccine though?
No. I don't plan to. [...]
Then it is your fault, and no one else's, if the virus kills you.

I'm prepared to go when my time comes.
Death doesn't scare me. Loss of freedom and living as a subject to the state does.


Does it frighten you when the state - under Trump - lies to you about the dangers of Covid? Dr. Fauci is a man of science who happens to work for the government, not a government bureaucrat, whereas Trump and his phony men of medicine, like that X Ray tech, Atlas, just spewed nonsense for the sake of Trump's poll numbers. Have you at all noticed that people dying of Covid these days are almost all in red states? That's because they chose to embrace Trumpian idiocy instead of science.

Biden doesn't lie about anything does he?
So once all the red staters are gone you will be free to build your socialist utopia without the racists red staters.


I never said Biden wasn't capable of lying. He just doesn't lie nearly as much as Trump.
Who the f*ck ever said anything about building a socialist utopia, or any sort of utopia? I was only pointing out that faith in Trump's lies are causing wide spread death in red states. And no, I don't want red staters to die, I want them to smarten up and stop being self deluded slaves of Trumpian strongmanism.


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08 Jul 2021, 5:36 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
The healthcare system is not overwhelmed. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching, transmitting or dying from Covid so what is the point?

In the UK the healthcare system got so overloaded with Covid cases that there's still a backlog for everything else that will take years to clear. USA healthcare was less affected, presumably because it's more of a rich man's healthcare system in the USA.

The vaccine mostly does stop you dying from Covid. It also significantly reduces transmission. I don't know where you got your "information" from, but it's completely out of whack with reality.


He got it from Trump, and Trumpian surrogates. Where else?


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08 Jul 2021, 5:38 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
magz wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the politicians are the ones controlling the science, doesn't that put the trust in question if one does not trust politicians?
Politicians do not control science. Most are not scientists. They rarely understand science at all. What they do understand they either misrepresent for their own purposes or claim to be false.

Science is self-correcting, while politics piles mistake upon mistake upon mistake ... ad infinitum.

Follow the money. The scientific community can be bought and sold and often are pawns of the ruling class. Ultimately its all about wealth and power.
Trump seemed to think that way. It didn't work.
It turned out he couldn't buy science results nor the 30 000 votes when he suddenly needed them.
Sometimes something is actually about truth, not power.

Trump is not part of the ruling class. He was an anomaly in the DC.


Of course he's part of the ruling class! The business ruling class. The idea that you people have swallowed that Trump is just a regular Joe fighting against the system is a load of crap.


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ToughDiamond
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08 Jul 2021, 6:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Of course he's part of the ruling class! The business ruling class. The idea that you people have swallowed that Trump is just a regular Joe fighting against the system is a load of crap.

Yes. Right wing populism works like that. Once I used to think that nobody would ever vote for him because he talked like an uneducated drunk and didn't even make sense. But they did, because they interpreted it as proof that at last there was somebody who wasn't a snob. Other blatant clues to his elitism are his party (Republican, right-wing, anti-redistribution) and his wealth (rich man). But either they didn't notice, or they managed to put it out of their heads.



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08 Jul 2021, 6:54 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Of course he's part of the ruling class! The business ruling class. The idea that you people have swallowed that Trump is just a regular Joe fighting against the system is a load of crap.

Yes. Right wing populism works like that. Once I used to think that nobody would ever vote for him because he talked like an uneducated drunk and didn't even make sense. But they did, because they interpreted it as proof that at last there was somebody who wasn't a snob. Other blatant clues to his elitism are his party (Republican, right-wing, anti-redistribution) and his wealth (rich man). But either they didn't notice, or they managed to put it out of their heads.


Indeed!


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Mr Reynholm
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08 Jul 2021, 9:55 pm

So where were all of these Covid Variants a year ago when there was no vaccine? Seems awful convenient that as soon as the vaccine is out and large numbers of people get vaccinated that all of a sudden the un-vaccinated, asymptomatic (healthy) people start becoming incubators for all sorts of variants.



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08 Jul 2021, 11:08 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So where were all of these Covid Variants a year ago when there was no vaccine?

They were inside of humans, getting spread around, getting talked about on the news. That's where they were.


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09 Jul 2021, 8:42 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So where were all of these Covid Variants a year ago when there was no vaccine?  Seems awful convenient that as soon as the vaccine is out and large numbers of people get vaccinated that all of a sudden the un-vaccinated, asymptomatic (healthy) people start becoming incubators for all sorts of variants.
It is the large number of people who are NOT vaccinated that caused the mutations/variants to develop over time.  It is called "evolution", the study of which is part of "science".  You may want to look these terms up and try to learn something real about them, instead of trying to spread doubt, fear, and confusion over topics about which you obviously know nothing.


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