The absurdity of Christianity

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Interesting that rather than wait and see, you've already labelled future criticism as "knee-jerk." In doing so you're revealing more about yourself than about this thing you're trying to describe / discredit, that doesn't even exist yet.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -advantage

Is that knee-jerk?

Aaaand there it is. I wasn’t wrong.

Sad to see you've run out of logical arguments again.

Nah. It’s just I think the discussion has run its course, plus I’ve lost interest and my job is placing a lot of demands on me right now. I suppose I could just resort to copy/paste responses, though I’ve never found that particularly interesting. But I’m not wrong, either. It was a predictable response.

Predictable in that somebody who thinks your assertion is wrong has said so and provided rational material to back it up.

You tried to discredit counter-argument by applying a pejorative label to it before it was even born. Being short of time doesn't entitle you to be scurrilous.

I'm not convinced the material was rational, nor the motivation for posting it in the first place. If I have time to deal with it more in depth, then I deal with it. In the meantime, you'll just have to accept one-liners from me until my situation eases.

He didn't run out. He never had any to begin with.

The material looks pretty rational to me - detailed logical arguments that make sense, citations to back up the assertions, that sort of thing. As for the motivation, nobody's ever likely to figure that out, nor is it relevent.

Like I said before, being busy doesn't excuse cheap jibes at people who you don't expect to agree with you.

Yes the Janus-face is an apt description of how Americans hold dissonant qualities of being christian and being hatemongers

You can thank mankind itself for bringing down the punishment of death via the original sin. Read Genesis, the first book in the Bible. God originally created man to be happy with Him forever, but because Adam and Eve listened to Satan and disobeyed God, they screwed things up for the rest of us.

As for Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, it's really quite simple. The blood of animals, as used in the old Jewish sacrifices, would no longer be enough to atone for all of mankind's sins. It would take the blood of a sinless man to accomplish this. Jesus willingly went to the cross for us all.

I probably did a poor job of trying to explain this, but it's the best I can do for now. Seriously, though--read up on some Christian apologetics, if for no other reason than to see that Christianity is not absurd.

In this scenario, God is usually described as perfect and all-powerful, so if his intent was for us "to be happy with Him forever," how was he not able to accomplish that? How did his perfect creation go wrong so quickly?

Some people have told me: "Free will." However, God presumably has free will (if he doesn't, I'd like to know how that works) and is also perfect. So why did God not just create more beings like himself? Why deliberately create a being with less knowledge, less power and more fallibility and then punish them for falling short of your standard? And then why go on to punish billions of people for their mistake, even though none of those people were given the same chance themselves?



I don't think there's a problem with how you explained it, per se. The basic, central concepts don't hold up at all, in my view. I have read Christian apologetic books. If anything, the logic they use to try to prove their position has moved me even further away from ever being religious.

Pretty much this. Just a minor nitpick, though…the blood of animals was never enough to atone. It was justification through God’s grace through man’s faith, and the blood sacrifice was an outward symbol that God’s people recognized their need for grace. Their hope was in a future atoning sacrifice for all people, God’s promise that had yet to be fulfilled. Christians see that promise as having already been fulfilled.

Reading up on apologetics is always good, but it’s important to also understand that if someone has already made his mind up, he will ALWAYS look for some counter argument no matter how strong a Christian argument might be. You cannot come to correct conclusions without correct presuppositions, and no amount of evidence will ever be enough.

Sounds sadistic, murdering those animals to atone for sins.Why would a kind God ask anyone to do that?Doing good works would be better.Also sending your only son to die for a bunch of sinners.What’s up with the blood?How would a blood sacrifice atone for anything?

Well, yeah, but that's why those passages from Genesis are worded the way they are. Genesis 2 beginning in verse 16 God tells Adam that he is FREE to eat from ANY tree of the garden, but follows that up with eating from the tee of knowledge of good and evil will result in death.

It was the serpent who played the part of the "voice of reason" since he already knew that humanity had a special place and role in creation that God had no interest in deviating from. It never made any sense that God would ever destroy human beings. But the point of knowing good from evil meant that, like God, humans assume responsibility for that knowledge, something they lack the power to do. God could punish all of mankind for the part he plays simply living in a broken world, but he doesn't do that. For example, cancer is a part of reality as we understand it. If human beings were to live forever, that would mean an eternity dealing with cancer and all the suffering that goes with it. Death is a merciful end to temporal existence, the reward for enduring the short time we have in this condition.

To me, it would be more sadistic to give human beings eternal life without at least giving them the option to end it if they wanted to, regardless of whether sin entered the world or not. Why make man in God's image and not at least give man the ability to destroy creation, same as God? What's the point of giving man a mind and then not even giving him the chance to see whether he can really rise above God or not? But in a fallen world, man has the opportunity to rise above HIMSELF and overcome evil.

As long as man has the choice, he has the responsibility. If the reward for sin is death, then a period of time is required within which one may earn it. That's why sacrifices are required. The blood of the sacrifice covers the sin, and God himself instituted the first blood sacrifice by killing animals for skins. Sacrifices don't make you live longer, but are rather an acknowledgment that you are on "borrowed" time and that your debt can be called in any moment. Blood sacrifices are required only because it demonstrates the human need for life to be exchanged for our own and the hope in the promise of an atoning sacrifice for all.

If you read later in Exodus and Leviticus, sacrifices weren't the indiscriminate killing of animals. Details aside, the sacrifices were never intended to be completely burned up. They were consumed in feasts. Some sacrifices had a secondary function as supporting the priest caste since they had no real property or other way of supporting themselves. In some instances of sacrifice whoever made the offering was invited to share with the priests. So given that sacrifices also had the practical function of feeding people, it's really not all that sadistic. The point was never to require sacrifices because they benefit God, but rather that the sacrifices benefit those who make them.

The blood doesn't actually do anything, btw. It's a picture of the relationship of life's corruption by sin and death, with life being required to redeem life. The sacrifices gave man a way to show that he knew he owed his life to God and that man is deserving of death. Blood is actually considered unclean in the Bible and was handled in ritualistically specific ways. God's offering of himself as a scapegoat takes away the sins of the world universally. The only difference between those who are saved and those who are not is whether one accepts that his sins have been forgiven and repents. In order to take that step, you have to understand and admit that you are a fallen creature in need of forgiveness and grace. If you don't believe you are in need of forgiveness of anything, then you don't need atoning blood. If you are in need, all you need is the faith that this has already been done for you.

Religion turns the ambiguity of unknowable causes into the absolute certainty of a Divine purpose.