The absurdity of Christianity

Page 21 of 32 [ 499 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 32 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,312

18 Jul 2021, 9:32 pm

AngelL wrote:

That much is quite clear. Please forgive me for wasting your time. :heart:

I don't see it as your fault. I could have ignored your post. And there's always the chance that somebody might step in and clarify your post now I've highlighted why it doesn't make sense to me, if it makes sense to them.

KimD
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 576

18 Jul 2021, 11:05 pm

carlos55 wrote:

Religion has its faults but you have to worry about what replaces it.

With religion you have respect for life & charity.

While humanist beliefs are positive, would society naturally follow humanism?

How would the poor or disabled fair in a such a society.

Humanist principles include things like altruism, responsibility, honesty, and integrity. It's based on reason and self-examination--human knowledge is flawed and therefore people should be on guard to minimize erroneous assumptions and poor judgment.

Would people follow it? Tell me this: do people actually follow the holy dogma they espouse?

The humanists I know--and you can lump me in with them, informally--follow their principles (or try to) because they genuinely believe in them, not out of obligation to their family tradition, because of imagined supremacy, or because they're afraid of hell.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

18 Jul 2021, 11:24 pm

KimD wrote:

You are on the right track. It would be nice if others on WP followed your thinking.

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

18 Jul 2021, 11:25 pm

Misslizard wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

If God is perfect unlimited love ,and we are his children ,then he wouldn’t fry us for ignorance of his law or for breaking it.
I’m a mom.I love my kids very much.If God’s love for us is greater than mine for my children ,then no one is toast.
Who could toss their disobedient child into a volcano?
Now you have assigned a limit to your God’s love.

I think its important to understand we are projecting our 21st century western European values on a god who was born among wandering patriarchal warlike tribes in the middle east. Our biblical god seems remarkably like an old grumpy tribal patriarch who would be more at home among the Taliban or Al Qaeda than among progressive free thinkers.

Then we need a new improved God.

God Mark-3

KimD
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 576

19 Jul 2021, 9:35 am

Quote:

The official number of deities according to scripture is three, which it says is the same thing as one. I don't understand it, so I guess people who say they do are either much brighter than I am, or just making up nonsense. My working theory is that it's the latter.

--ToughDiamond

Unitarians started rejecting the idea of a Holy Trinity several hundreds of years ago. The Trinity wasn't even mentioned as we know it today until the Council of Nicea and wasn't settled until several decades later, around 360 or 381 a.d.

It may make for some good mind-bending poetry, but never made sense to me either. I like me some enigmatic poetry now and then, but don't tell me that not taking it literally makes me--or anyone else--wicked!

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,821
Location: Stendec

19 Jul 2021, 9:44 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

It is not difficult to understand.

• "God the Father" is the soul of God.

• "God the Son" is the physical body of God.

• "God the Holy Spirit" is the personality of God.

• Together, these three aspects are God.

Much more than this would require a longer and more detailed essay, which you and others would likely nit-pick and refute through a metaphoric "Death of A Thousand Cuts".

_________________

No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,312

19 Jul 2021, 10:41 am

Mind-bending it is - this "explanation" is one of the simplest from the ecclesiastical egg-heads:
"For, when we say: He who is the Father is not the Son, we refer to the distinction of persons; but when we say: the Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, and the Holy Spirit that which the Father is and the Son is, this clearly refers to the nature or substance"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trin ... ee_Persons

Fnord's explanation is much more straightforward, but I expect the theologians would say it was only a crude grasp of the true situation. Like a lot of their "deep" philosophical concepts, I doubt it ultimately means anything at all except that some bigwigs like to create hard work. As an atheist, luckily I can just dismiss the whole thing as made-up twaddle.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,821
Location: Stendec

19 Jul 2021, 10:51 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

[...] Fnord's explanation is much more straightforward, but I expect the theologians would say it was only a crude grasp of the true situation. Like a lot of their "deep" philosophical concepts, I doubt it ultimately means anything at all except that some bigwigs like to create hard work. As an atheist, luckily I can just dismiss the whole thing as made-up twaddle.

Yes, I have heard the "It goes much deeper than that" condescension; but I have to remind those eggheads that members of the laity are not likely to have earned any PhDs in religion, and that many atheists do consider those "deep" philosophical concepts to be no more than so much convoluted double-talk. Then they remind me that if I truly understood the concepts, then I would also be a religious leader.

I try to keep my beliefs simple, and my explanations easy to understand. Whether or not anyone else believes as I do is entirely up to them, and not my responsibility -- I am not here to "win souls" by forced conversions.

Rev. Billy Sunday, preaching

_________________

No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,587

19 Jul 2021, 12:41 pm

Fnord wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Yes, Dog Has A Soul As Much As Human Beings, If Ya Wanna Call That 'Father', More On That Coming in Part 3...

Yes, Dog Has A Physical Body As Much As Human Beings, If Ya Wanna Call That 'Son', Often Used More Than Humans Do.

Yes, Dog Has A Personality As Much As Human Beings, If Ya Wanna Call That 'Holy Spirit', Often Expressed More Than Human, Reference Part 1...

It is Crystal
Clear From

A Description of Your Faith, God Is Dog...

Amazing, Not A Bad Description of Your Faith, Fnord; i Am Rather Proud of You Today, At Least,

For Standing Up As A Dude and At Least Describing Your Faith, Elementary As Such, Yes; Even, if

You Seem Still A Bit Timid to Defend Your Faith, So Far, For What Might Come Next...

It's Worth

Noting

Someone

Secure in Their
Faith is Not Afraid

Of Criticism, if They
Are Capable of Defending it;

Never The Less, i Am Proud of
You Today, For At Least Describing What You Believe 'God' is in 3 Parts too...

Truly Nice That Dog Will Fit in to Your Description, Just As Well With Common Sense And What
Science Shows Is Currently True About Dog too; The Metaphors Matter Not; Only, Essence Now Real...

Dog is
One of

Man's Best
FRiEnDS, Simply

For the Fact Dogs Often Have

More Emotional Intelligence

Than Humans Who Tend to Wag
the 'Tale' Without Much Essence of Love...

(Yes, Named "Service Animals"; Yet Actually Love At Hand,
Truly Delivering Valuable Sources of Oxytocin, Humans Simply
Are No Longer Available to Do When More 'Machine' than 'Dog')

True, If 'Trademark Jesus' In '3 Parts' is 'Love' (AKA God), He Is Surely
Now More Dog than 'Man' From What i Have Observed in Life at Least...

Anecdotal
Of Course

And Often
Cultural Specific
When it Comes to Human;

As Some Humans Are Even
More Like Love Than Dog And
God in 'That Old Book' Named 'Jesus' too...

Dog Would Never Torture Anyone Forever;

Just Bite Your Butt, Forgive You, And
Wag His or Her Tail With Love Again!

Yes, Dog Is A Much Greater Love Than God
In 'That Old Dusty Antiquated Truly Absurd Book'...

i Rest my Case for Dog Now; It's Just Frigging Common
Sense; My God, Even Dog Easily Understands this Now;

And Even More Territorial And Feral, Cat, When He And or Her is in the Mood too...

_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick

ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,312

20 Jul 2021, 7:28 am

Fnord wrote:

I try to keep my beliefs simple, and my explanations easy to understand.

Indeed, if an explanation is hard to understand, it's not much of an explanation. Sometimes there is no simple explanation, until somebody thinks of one.

vividgroovy
Deinonychus

Joined: 20 Dec 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 334
Location: Santa Maria, CA

20 Jul 2021, 9:01 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trin ... ee_Persons

In the propaganda film "God's Not Dead," there's a scene I find particularly amusing: the Christian protagonist is teaching another character about Christianity and casually drops the idea that Jesus is both God and God's son, and the other guy has no follow-up questions. He just instantly accepts it. And this guy supposedly knew nothing at all about Christianity before this.

aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,587

20 Jul 2021, 9:19 am

"Since You Asked"...

Meh, Christianity And The Old Bible is Basically
A Collection of Stories That Follow Human Archetypes...

For Instance, The Basic Hero Archetypal

Story As Expressed in Isaiah 53,

King James Version:

"53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

So Once Again The Hero Escapes Darkness
Resurrected iN LiGHT to Provide His Wisdom

to the Rest of the Old Village...

Oldest Story Not Much Different

Than "Beauty and the Beast" When the

Most Feminine Woman Assessed with the
Best Figure in 11th and 12th Grade Working

For the Clerk of Courts, Spots the Most Handsome Masculine

Man, Half Shaven, She's Ever Seen With Eyes the Colors of Emerald Green
Seas, Jet Black Closely Cropped Curly Hair, A Beverage Agent Making His

Report Back to the Clerk Of Courts...

She, Believing Whoever is Married to Him Must be the Luckiest Woman in the World
Just From First Glance; Just From Love At First Sight As He Asks Her to Marry Him on

The Second

Date And Rarely

Says a Word After

They Are Married

For Three Years

Leaving to Make
More Money With A Wife
Who Isn't So Focused on Wanting
To Stay Home Raising Two Children...

RaiSinG Her Son as Love As He Must One Day
Fight the Demons His Father Had; Move into the
Darkness And Rise Up As HiS Own Father Then

With Father

As Son

And Holy

Spirit of Love
From His Mother

Now Fully in Tow
Fearless Master of the
All in All of His Emotions
Regulating Senses Integrating

Like A Ferrari Human All 12 Cylinders In Tune...

In Other Words, Most Any Hero Will Fit that Metaphor
of that Isaiah 53 Story And Jesus is Just Another Metaphor
For the Story too; Life is Basically Move and Repose; Death And

Resurrection;

Dead Seeds

Bring FLoWeRS

to Life Again; Yes

Leaves Feed Trees,
Fall to Soils, Feeding

Grass for the Antelope

to Eat, Then the Lion Will Consume

the Antelope; Lion Falling to the Ground

At HiS End, Like Leaves From A Tree to Feed
The Soils For Grass to Feed the Offspring of the

Antelope As the Circle of Existence Continues; This Repose and Move...

Waves High, Waves Low; Tides In, Tides Out; Night and Day, Dark and Light; All is All

When Duality

And Detail

Comes Together

Just All in All 'God' Now to Breathe... ONE BiG PiCTuRE NoW

To See Be i AM...

Other than that It's Obvious Most Old And So-Called Holy
And Sacred Text Comes From A Day And Age, Mostly of Misery

Loves Company in SCaRCiTY of Days and Nights As there is Zero
Humor Expressed; All Is Strife, All Is Night With Hope For One Day to Be Light...

If 'God' Isn't A

Laugh;

Life

Isn't

Much Worth
Living to Breathe...

Basically A Lake of Fire...

Yawn, Thank God Folks Didn't
Stop Writing, Playing, Acting, And Doing New
More Colorful Testaments of Life; Truly Breathing

What is Good as Life...

Life is Good Now;

Yet Not Much Proof

oF iT in Old Sacred
Holy Stale Text Without

Living Laughing Loving Now...

Fear of Naked God, Fear Of Even Being Naked Free; Now Nature
At Its Very Naked Best, Living Loving Laughing All of Existence As the Joke it is...

IF

We Laugh

SMiLE And Truly

BREaTHE iN This Heaven
Now to Give and Share
Caring Free Just for the

Fun of LiFE NoW LoViNG iT ALL...

This Is Heaven

For Those who Laugh..

For the Sake of Joy Now...

The Word 'Israel' Means 'Struggle
With God' (Insert 'Nature' if You Like) The Bible IS A Reflection Mostly of Misery Loves Company...

Of Course It's Still Very Attractive to Those Who Still LiVE iN ScarCiTY of Humor NoW iN Joy...

Honestly, if the Real Five Foot One or So, And One Hundred And Six Pound Or So, Little Brown Man
Looking Very Much Like A Modern Syrian Dude or Even Mexican Roofer/Carpenter With Shortly Cropped Dark Hair;

Yes, if The Original Little
Brown Man Jesus, Could

Really Return Now For Real;

He And Or She Would Be So Dam

Happy To Find

A 'New Jerusalem'

Like The United States

To Truly Feel A Right
to Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit

Of Happiness; i Bet ALL 'He' Would Have to
Say Putting Your New Roof On, Even After
A Hurricane is This is A Land of Rainbows

God Bless

You; Thank

You For This

New Testament

Of Life is Good to me...

Thank You, Just Thank You;

Not Sending Anyone to A Lake
of Fire For Having Sex Just For Fun
Either, Without Being Married; Just

Thank You, For This Feeling of Joy; Life,
Liberty, And This Free Pursuit of Happiness;

Nailing All These Shingles to Your Roof of Course
in This Version Dancing Across the Roof With The

'AM Mexico Radio Station Music' on...

Heaven on the

Roof Being

Human Just Being Free
to Eat, Sleep and BREaTHE Loving All

Together Now

With A Laugh And Smile; Sun Shining
Above, Just Loving it All As the FLoWeR Life Will Be...NoW

Life Really S88Ked For Most Folks in the Days of the
Old Bible; And That's Why Most of the Book S88KS Lemons too...

Some Folks Are Still Sucking
The Lemons; Minions And
Despicable Leaders/

Villain

Demagogue

Archetypes STiLL NoW

And Their Blind Sheep

Same Old Revelation Coming Again...

Death and Destruction, Unvaccinated in
A Deadly Pandemic; Worshipping After

Death More Than

LoVinG LiFE NoW ALL;

Yuck,

Sounds
Like Same
Old Stale Hell to me...

Just Another Lake of Fire Ready to BaTHE iMPRiSoNinG NoW...

Meanwhile, 'The Am Station' on the 'Mexican Radio' is Playing...

i Mean Honestly, Have You Ever Seen 'The Mexican Folks' in Walmart...
They Are Usually the Only Ones, Eyes Gleaming With Loving Freedom;

Smiles and LaughS on

Fire of Joy...

Just
Heaven
On Earth to Play
And Roof Away...

'THeRE iS No Ceiling or Walls
Up THeRE; Just Sky And Stars Shining Free...

"Mr. And Or Mrs. Blue Sky" Returning Every Day, SuN SMiLinG Again...

It All Depends on How Ya Frame the Story And Build the Essence of Joy Within...

Thanks..

Just Building A Way...

Just Another Corner
Stone to Raise Loving Free NoW...

_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick

AngelL
Deinonychus

Joined: 13 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 349
Location: Seattle, WA

20 Jul 2021, 4:47 pm

Fnord wrote:

Hello. As an addendum to your contribution above, I have occasionally found it helpful to suggest to those having difficulty wrapping their heads around the idea of 'multiplicity in their deity' to meditate. When most sit down to meditate, despite the decision and desire to do so, a steady stream of thoughts arise. The person trying to meditate is both the one saying, "Shut up!" and the one refusing to shut up.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,821
Location: Stendec

20 Jul 2021, 4:53 pm

AngelL wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Meditation ... about as effective as prayer ...

_________________

No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.

aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,587

21 Jul 2021, 8:53 am

Fnord wrote:

AngelL wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Meditation ... about as effective as prayer ...

Actually, 'You' Are Incorrect,

Science Agrees That Meditation
Is Indeed, 23 Percent More Effective
Than Opiates in Reducing Pain; In Case Study,

IF You Don't Believe It, Try on the Worst Pain
Known to Humankind, Type Two Trigeminal
Neuralgia, From Wake to Sleep, For 66 Months
Actually Assessed Worse than the Pain of Real Crucifixion;

And Find Out For Yourself that Writing In Stream of Consciousness
Meditative, Holy, And Very Sacred For Real, in Feeling And Sensing Meditative
Autotelic Flow Will Even Eventually Take All that Pain Away For Free; And After

Using the Bio-Feedback
Of An Autotelic Free Flowing
Meditative Dance to Regulate
Emotions and Integrate Senses

As Science Shows This too is A Real (Dance Hall)
Highway to Heaven Within on Earth Now As Well...

As Far As Prayer Goes; The Belief that
A Doctor is Gonna Heal You With Words
of Loving Intent At Your Bedside is Indeed
Shown In Science Still to Bring Potential Sugar
Pill Placebo Prayer of Putting So-Called Incurable
Disease Into Remission; Further More, The Nocebo
Effect; is Also A Real VooDoo Effect as Real As Typically

Folks Who Believe That Aging Sucks, Have Even Been Shown
to Live 7 Years Less than Folks Like me Who Are 3 Times Stronger Now Since
Age 20's as Still Empirically Shown, Leg Pressing Up to 1520 Pounds At age 61;

i Am Surely Not the only one; As i have A Captain of the Navy Friend, who
Worked at the Pentagon, Who Squatted 450 Pounds in His Mid-70's; Many
More Case Study Examples Away From the Nocebo Effect Way of Aging Couch Potato Life...

Science Also Shows That Even Imaging Exercising as A Kind of Visual Prayer in Improving
Human Potential, Actually Brings Empirical Measures of Strength as Well as Real Mind over Matter too...

Additionally, Science Shows Meditating Just Three times a Week is associated With Regeneration of Grey
Matter of the Brain; And by God Even listening to 'Gregorian Chants' Helps to Repair DNA Through the release

Of Human Growth

Hormone; Associated

With Basically Any Regular

Routine of Exercise of Getting

Off Ya Butt in Life; and Yes Indeed,

At Best MaKinG Life, A Holy And Sacred

Dance And Song of Meditating Life where in Autotelic Flow Free,

Each and Every Step And Word Becomes Eternally Now Forever Bliss...

Where Science Shows Creativity Rises 500 Percent With Meditation, Just
3 Times A Week; Where Human Potentials in Productivity in the Sweet
Spot Tween Anxiety and Apathy continually rise With Truly Stellar Results;

Again In Free FLoWinG Autotelic Way; A REAL Human Fountain of Youth...

Christianity Points to the Mustard Seed Becoming a Biggest Tree With Faith

Too and Indeed Meditation and Prayer is Essence of Faith For Real in Mind Over Matter Still Now...

For True This
iS How Humans

Move Mountains; Mountains

of Love Held Up By Grains of

Sand on Earth Greater Than Any

Rocket Ship Escaping Heaven On EartH...

SMiLes My FRiEnD, 'You' Are a pretty smart Human;

Yet Horatio, And Believe it or Not Ripley; There are things for You to still Learn/Do
Now You Show You Are totally Ignorant of; At Least Some folks Put forth an effort to

Help You open your eyes...

And to Be Clear

i am not talking to 'You'..

As Obviously, 'The Ignorant'
Are Unwilling to Even Try to 'Read'...

Thanks For Providing Dark Muse to Flame LiGHT...

Yep, There Are Many Hints in the Christian Bible That Heavenly NoW EternAlly
Points ThiS way; Unfortunately, Just Not the Science it in to Prove it works like Now;

For the Folks Who Believe
the Only Place They Are
Gonna Find Heaven Is

After A Dirt Nap

Of Death

True A
Self-Fulfilling
Death All the Way
ACross the Lifespan Now

In Terms of Actually Breathing Heaven Now For Real;

Is There Purgatory and Hell; Look No Farther than the

'Pews' of 'the Churches' That Worship Life After Death And See the Frowns

And

'Couch

Potato Stares of Emptiness'...

True, Look No Further to See
The Saddest Creatures in the
Entire UNiVeRSE Separated From
The All in All (God) Free Loving Fearless Now...

For Surely A Grain of Sand Holding Up
A Mountain of Human Love Is HeAVeNLY iN Deed..

_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick

RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,969
Location: Adelaide, Australia

23 Jul 2021, 10:06 am

So we're discussing the trinity now? The Christian God started out as the Jewish God. They have more claim to that god than anyone. What do they think of the trinity?

Quote:

Oneness and indivisibility of God
In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical — it is even considered by some polytheistic.[1] According to Judaic beliefs, the Torah rules out a trinitarian God in Deuteronomy (6:4): "Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one."

Judaism teaches that it is heretical for any man to claim to be God, part of God, or the literal son of God. The Jerusalem Talmud (Ta'anit 2:1) states explicitly: "if a man claims to be God, he is a liar."

_________________
The days are long, but the years are short

Page 21 of 32 [ 499 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 32 Next

Jump to:

The absurdity of Christianity Post Reply New Topic

The absurdity of Christianity