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Taliban controls Afghanistan

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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Jul 2021, 9:13 am

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/09/worl ... index.html

Jeez so after 2 decades of US occupation of Afghanistan (to fight Terror and «spread democracy ») and yet the Taliban ended up controlling most of it, and negotiating withdrawal terms with them too!

Oh and Iran, the supposedly « Shiite rival » are negotiating sith them too: https://www.voanews.com/south-central-a ... hans-talks.

So now Afghanistan is a radical bastion again and making ties with another radical power.

Good job, America.

/sarcasm



Fnord
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09 Jul 2021, 9:20 am

As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.

America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.

There is just no pleasing some people.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Jul 2021, 9:28 am

Fnord wrote:
As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.

America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.

There is just no pleasing some people.



When an empire occupies a more backward country, the ethical responsibility often falls on the occupier to improve the occupied nation; the Romans did so, the French did so, hell even the brutal Ottomans did so.

Your occupation did nothing of this sort; just sucking it dry and left it to the dogs.



Fnord
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09 Jul 2021, 9:37 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.  America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.  There is just no pleasing some people.
When a big nation occupies another a more backward country, the ethical responsibility often falls on the occupier to improve the occupied nation; the Romans did so, the French did so, hell even the brutal Ottomans did so.  Your occupation did nothing of this sort; just sucking it dry and left to the dogs.
People cannot be taught if they do not want to learn.  The Afghanis are more numerous than the Talibanis; but they never learned (even after 20 years) how to defend themselves, so now the Taliban are taking over.  Blame America for being there; blame America for not being there -- it does not matter, because it is the Afghanis who have no idea how to stand up for themselves.


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magz
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09 Jul 2021, 9:43 am

From the news that reach me, the Afghan officials haven't got their corruption problem under control and the mess after US troops leaving is at least partially an effect of it.
I can't say about any role US did or didn't play in it, from what I know from people who lived there, corruption is widespread in Central Asia in general.


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09 Jul 2021, 9:48 am

No one has occupied Afghanistan long term,not the Brits, not the Russians.Or us.
I’m sorry for the people there.Especially the women.


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Fnord
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09 Jul 2021, 9:49 am

magz wrote:
From the news that reach me, the Afghan officials haven't got their corruption problem under control and the mess after US troops leaving is at least partially an effect of it.  I can't say about any role US did or didn't play in it, from what I know from people who lived there, corruption is widespread in Central Asia in general.
The operative word is "Baksheesh" -- tipping, charitable giving, bribery, political corruption, and "protection" rackets in the Middle East and South Asia.  It is so much a part of their culture that immigrants from those countries are shocked when they find out how ineffective it is here (an effective bribe in Kandahar would not pay for a meal inside Disneyland, for example).


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magz
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09 Jul 2021, 9:53 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
From the news that reach me, the Afghan officials haven't got their corruption problem under control and the mess after US troops leaving is at least partially an effect of it.  I can't say about any role US did or didn't play in it, from what I know from people who lived there, corruption is widespread in Central Asia in general.
The operative word is "Baksheesh" -- tipping, charitable giving, bribery, political corruption, and "protection" rackets in the Middle East and South Asia.  It is so much a part of their culture that immigrants from those countries are shocked when they find out how ineffective it is here (an effective bribe in Kandahar would not pay for a meal inside Disneyland, for example).
Some people who moved to Poland - not a paradise on Earth, after all - expressed surprise that you can live a regular life without ever bribing anyone.
And some were shocked that your college grades don't depend on who your father is!


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Fnord
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09 Jul 2021, 9:57 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
From the news that reach me, the Afghan officials haven't got their corruption problem under control and the mess after US troops leaving is at least partially an effect of it.  I can't say about any role US did or didn't play in it, from what I know from people who lived there, corruption is widespread in Central Asia in general.
The operative word is "Baksheesh" -- tipping, charitable giving, bribery, political corruption, and "protection" rackets in the Middle East and South Asia.  It is so much a part of their culture that immigrants from those countries are shocked when they find out how ineffective it is here (an effective bribe in Kandahar would not pay for a meal inside Disneyland, for example).
Some people who moved to Poland - not a paradise on Earth, after all - expressed surprise that you can live a regular life without ever bribing anyone.
I have witnessed this with some immigrant Filipinos, too.  They call it "Legay", or something like that.


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09 Jul 2021, 9:57 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
From the news that reach me, the Afghan officials haven't got their corruption problem under control and the mess after US troops leaving is at least partially an effect of it.  I can't say about any role US did or didn't play in it, from what I know from people who lived there, corruption is widespread in Central Asia in general.
The operative word is "Baksheesh" -- tipping, charitable giving, bribery, political corruption, and "protection" rackets in the Middle East and South Asia.  It is so much a part of their culture that immigrants from those countries are shocked when they find out how ineffective it is here (an effective bribe in Kandahar would not pay for a meal inside Disneyland, for example).
Some people who moved to Poland - not a paradise on Earth, after all - expressed surprise that you can live a regular life without ever bribing anyone.
And some were shocked that your college grades don't depend on who your father is!



I never have paid a bribe or know of anyone that has here. If I was ever to pay a bribe it would be a significant one for some very pressing issue and not something I would take lightly. Paying them every day as a part of life seems crazy to me.



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09 Jul 2021, 12:42 pm

The way women and non-Christians are treated in the red states here is infinitely worse than the way women and non-Muslims are treated by the Taliban.


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magz
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09 Jul 2021, 12:47 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The way women and non-Christians are treated in the red states here is infinitely worse than the way women and non-Muslims are treated by the Taliban.

Do you have first-hand experience with both?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Jul 2021, 1:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.  America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.  There is just no pleasing some people.
When a big nation occupies another a more backward country, the ethical responsibility often falls on the occupier to improve the occupied nation; the Romans did so, the French did so, hell even the brutal Ottomans did so.  Your occupation did nothing of this sort; just sucking it dry and left to the dogs.
People cannot be taught if they do not want to learn.  The Afghanis are more numerous than the Talibanis; but they never learned (even after 20 years) how to defend themselves, so now the Taliban are taking over.  Blame America for being there; blame America for not being there -- it does not matter, because it is the Afghanis who have no idea how to stand up for themselves.



With what they’re gonna defend themselves? With sticks and goats?
While Taliban being trained and armed by drug revenues and nearby powers.



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09 Jul 2021, 1:19 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The way women and non-Christians are treated in the red states here is infinitely worse than the way women and non-Muslims are treated by the Taliban.


Are women beaten publicly in the red states?


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09 Jul 2021, 1:45 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.  America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.  There is just no pleasing some people.
When a big nation occupies another a more backward country, the ethical responsibility often falls on the occupier to improve the occupied nation; the Romans did so, the French did so, hell even the brutal Ottomans did so.  Your occupation did nothing of this sort; just sucking it dry and left to the dogs.
People cannot be taught if they do not want to learn.  The Afghanis are more numerous than the Talibanis; but they never learned (even after 20 years) how to defend themselves, so now the Taliban are taking over.  Blame America for being there; blame America for not being there -- it does not matter, because it is the Afghanis who have no idea how to stand up for themselves.
With what they’re gonna defend themselves? With sticks and goats?  While Taliban being trained and armed by drug revenues and nearby powers.
With the weapons they have already obtained from the US; that is, if they have not already sold them to the Taliban.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Jul 2021, 1:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As long as the bigger bully was on the playground, the smaller bullies kept quiet.  Now that the big bully is leaving, the smaller bullies are coming out of hiding.  The really sad part is that the other kids on the playground never learned from the big bully how to defend themselves.  America gets criticized for being involved, and America gets criticized for walking away.  There is just no pleasing some people.
When a big nation occupies another a more backward country, the ethical responsibility often falls on the occupier to improve the occupied nation; the Romans did so, the French did so, hell even the brutal Ottomans did so.  Your occupation did nothing of this sort; just sucking it dry and left to the dogs.
People cannot be taught if they do not want to learn.  The Afghanis are more numerous than the Talibanis; but they never learned (even after 20 years) how to defend themselves, so now the Taliban are taking over.  Blame America for being there; blame America for not being there -- it does not matter, because it is the Afghanis who have no idea how to stand up for themselves.
With what they’re gonna defend themselves? With sticks and goats?  While Taliban being trained and armed by drug revenues and nearby powers.
With the weapons they have already obtained from the US; that is, if they have not already sold them to the Taliban.



Big claims need evidence. And if they did sell them that only means a failure for the US to develop their economy after 20 years; while the Talibans are so rich while the Afghan people are still so poor?

All Afghan oppositions will be massacred by the Talibans starting tomorrow.