Do men dismiss feminism as bad too much?

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[quote="ironpony"

Yes I am saying that it makes them more sexually attractive. But doesn't that apply to now as well, and not just 1973?[/quote]

You don't seem to understand what I am saying. The purpose of feminism is not to make women more attractive to you. Reading your viewpoint is like travelling back in time.

Agreed.  The purpose of feminism is to make "The System" fair and equitable for men and women -- to make "sex-blind" the policies of education, employment, housing, et cetera so that men and women will be treated both fairly and equitably.

To be fair, feminism by itself does not make women more "sexy"; but like I said previously, there is something about "liberated" women that does seem more generally attractive.  Is it their confidence?  Their optimism?  Their ability and willingness to define themselves without reference to a relationship with a man?

There is some indefinable quality about "liberated" women that just makes them more pleasant to be around.

(In my own experience, of course.)

Sounds conformist. Conflict within a society is always wrong, according to those who are already in charge of it and want to maintain their position.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying. The purpose of feminism is not to make women more attractive to you. Reading your viewpoint is like travelling back in time.[/quote]

Oh yes, I iknow that is not women being more attractive is not the purpose of feminism. I am just saying that it's still a nice bonus as a result, but when guys complain about feminism, they never want to acknowledge the bonus it seems.

Why does it have to be attractive to us males? nobody is disputing women are entitled to have a crack at any job a male does provided they perform the task better than other prospective candidates,

What they mean is the goal of feminism is not to make women more sexy, like that is not the point, if it does I suppose that is fine. But the whole thing is about equal rights and treatment. Women aren't always looking to seem sexy and shouldn't be expected to. But at the same time I don't think it is wrong if guys think the idea of women just being themselves is more sexy but that should not be the end all point. LIke you know sometimes women just want to talk about things with people without the focus being on how sexy or not sexy they look.

Like for an example there was a woman called Hedy Lamarr, she was like an inventive genius with a very smart mind, but she was also an actress. Guess what she got more fame for...? Like here mind was ignored and people just focused on 'oh she's a pretty actress in that movie' with totally disregarding other things she did. So I would not say it it is wrong to see women making their own choices being 'sexy' in a way, but at the same time it is important to recognize women want to be recognized for other things than just how sexy they are.

I mean what if you made some kind of accomplishment that you were proud of, and everyone just ignored that to talk about how you look....how do you think you would feel about that? Do you think that would be annoying to you?

Oh yes, I am not saying feminism is about being sexy of course... I just mean that feminism causing women to be sexier and better in bed, is a nice bonus, but guys, when they talk and complain about feminism, never seem to acknowledge the sexual bonus.

Men & women generally being biologically different is the exact reason I say I'm a male feminist instead of saying I'm an Equalist/just saying that I support equal rights for everyone. Equal rights paints both genders with the same brush & does NOT automatically factor in the gender differences like the fact that women can get pregnant. It is possible for a guy to support equal rights for both genders while being strongly pro-life & vehemently against birth-control because only women can get pregnant so those issues have less direct effect on men & thus are outside the realm of both genders having the exact same rights, freedoms, & equality.



I notice that as well. I don't know what things are like in other countries but here in the US everybody just wants to point fingers at the other side & you are either with them or against them. If you don't agree with them on any hot button issue, you are automatically categorized as being a hard-core member of the other side which is their enemy. The thing is that many people including me do NOT fit nice & neat in either box so both sides resent us for being part of the other side even though the other side hates us just as much for being part of the other. It just goes on in a loop with both sides hating us because they both believe that we are opposite things when we are in fact neither. I am NOT just talking about political parties, it is like that for LOTS of various groups. I find it very odd that lots of things claim black & white thinking is a symptom of autism when black & white thinking seems to be very common for most people. They might as well just claim that all humans are autistic. OK I'll stop this here cuz I'm going waaay off topic & making myself angry.



I get the point you are trying to make but I think it can take time for society to realize & catch up with the new equality laws. Lots of people may not take advantage of em at 1st due to being unaware or fear of being judged or fear of facing discrimination from their family, romantic partners, or society in general. But as time goes on more people would gradually start to take advantage of that freedom either due to their personalities & interests & wants or due to necessity like their life situation.



I generally tend to be less attracted to confidence, optimism, & women who are able & willing to define themselves without reference to a relationship with a man. I know some extremist would imminently accuse me of being an imposter feminist but hear me out, just because I'm generally less attracted to those aspects, does NOT mean that I do not support women having the freedom to make their own decisions & decide for themselves what they want to do or not do in life & with their own bodies. The reasons I tend to be less attracted to that are because I am generally not very confident or optimistic, & a relationship is essential for me. I tend to be much more attracted to women who are more like me though there can be lots of exceptions so this is NOT a rule or anything. I tend to take a passive role with things including relationships. I much rather be a supporter than a leader within my romantic relationships & other various things. I like to be given clear rules & told directly what to do & what not to do. I'm horrible at figuring out on my own what to do & not to do & how to do & not do something. I want to do right by others but I end up playing a guessing game with lots of people. It's like I'm in a minefield with no metal-detector or map or any method to figure out where to step & not step. The women in my family are very passive-aggressive. They believe that they have to do a bunch of stuff for their husbands & kids that their husbands never asked em to do or even really wanted their wives to do. Then the wives get frustrated with their husbands because the wives feel that they are being taken advantage of due to them being women If their husbands ask what they can do or how they can help, the wives say things like "You would not do it right" or "You don't really want to do it" & the wives have the nerve to be the 1s complaining about their husbands not helping with the domestic responsibilities I'm originally from the deep south aka the bible-belt so maybe that has something to do with the women acting like that. A real feminist woman would not play that passive-aggressive cr@p. A feminist woman would not automatically volunteer to do women's work & then resent her husband because she is doing the work that she decided all by herself that she just had to do due to her being a woman. A feminist would be more direct about things & I'm an Aspie who needs directness.



I would actually prefer to be with a women who is below me than a woman who is above me. I'm very used to being considered the bottom of the barrel so to speak. I do NOT think of myself as a loser but I am very well aware that most others would. I really like feeling useful, needed, & appreciated within a romantic relationship & someone bellow me should be much more likely to do that than someone above me, at least in theory anyways. Someone above me would be more likely to start resenting me after a bit. The problem I had when I was single is that I'm so low on the social & popularity ladder that few women are at or bellow my level. Most of the 1s who were at or bellow my level were wanting a guy who was at least a bit nigher than me. If I woulda suddenly had some good luck when I was single & won the lottery or something, I woulda sought out women who were at or bellow the level I was on before my sudden good luck. They would be more relatable to me.

Depends on who is interested in you. Just because a partner is marrying up doesn't mean you have any control over the relationship, yet alone yourself.

I live in an area where many will stab their own mothers in the back for a pack of cigarettes. I'm also on the more well off side and autistic and boot. A lot who are interested in me are actually interested in the car or a house. Some dote on me and "love" me but their love only lasts as long as the car can roll or until they realise they won't get a house to live in.

It's extraordinary how quickly I develop stage four terminal cooties the second the car needs an oil change and is off the road. I've had plenty of women interested in me but I was still an incel many of the times despite seemingly being the one with all the aces up the sleeve.

Now women have to touch me before touching my "things".

It was the same in college.  As soon as I got an apartment, there were women who made it clear to me that they would exchange "favors" in lieu of money to sub-rent a room.  I turned them down after seeing how others fell for that one "room-mate with benefits" lie, which quickly turned into two or three room-mates who rarely paid their share of the rent, did not clean up after themselves, and provided no benefit of any kind for the person whose name was on the lease.

Yip or sometimes they provide you with a "teaser" first that they have no intention on continuing in the future.

If a woman I'm with has taken a sudden, self serving interest in my possessions then I subtly (or not so) drop the hint that it's probably about time for intimacy. If they still don't want to touch me with a barge pole then it's obvious they were never interested in me to begin with and the writing is on the wall.

Aspies need to be very cautious or such people because we are easier to manipulate. You can still have women chasing you and still be incel if you don't vet partners properly. Often flat out asking them for sex is often the more important vetting process for me if I suspect someone has taken a selfish turn.

It depends on what you mean by "feminism", but there are still valid reasons for criticizing feminism by men and also women themselves too.

And it's even debatable whether women today actually are statistically more happy than in the past.

There is also a lot of blatant hypocrisy and judgementalism in the feminist movement or other branches derived from the feminist movement.

I get what your saying. Since I'm disabled & originally from a very hard-core conservative area, I am unfortunately very used to most people thinking of me as a lazy leach wanting to s#ck on the teats of the hard-working American taxpayer. People very often saw me as selfish & lazy when in reality I had NO desire to mooch off a woman. I live very simply compared to lots of non-disableds. When it comes to things & money, I mostly just need & really want a good desktop computer, decently fast internet, TV with cable(don't want premium channels or pay-per-view stuff), the food I like, & a place where me & my woman can get some private time with just the two of us to cuddle or whatever. Yet any disabled guy who is lonely & wanting a woman is thought to be some kinda gold-digging abusive bastard who will only stay with a woman as long as he is able to drain her & her family of their hard-earned money.

There def seems to be a double standard where it is much more acceptable for women to get in relationship with guys who earn a lot more than them than it is for guys to get in relationships with women who earn a lot more than them. I believe that a major reason why is due to the traditional gender roles & some(or maybe lots) of guys wanting to keep women dependent on them so the guys can be the 1s in power & in control. Here in the US women are understandably very wary to get involved with guys earning less than them due to women generally getting paid less than men due to income inequality & lots of employers not offering paid family & medical leave. If a woman is forced to miss work due to things like pregnancy & childbirth, she likely will not get paid & can risk getting fired for being out too long. I was fired from my last job after being out two weeks for medical reasons due to company policy & I did NOT get any paid sick time for those two weeks I was out. I was full time scheduled for about 40 hours a week & I was even coming in on one of my two off days when I was allowed overtime, yet I was a lazy leach because I was only getting paid the federal minimum-wage & I was selfish enough to desire a romantic relationship due to loneliness when I could not afford to support a woman Two weeks is NOT enough time for a woman to miss work due to her being pregnant & giving birth & needing to spend some time with her newborn baby. This has traditionally been a man's world & this world is $hit, watch the news I bet things would be a lot better if women held a more equal amount of power as men do.

If a woman woulda offered me sex when I was single, I woulda suggested that we go on a date 1st. Spend some time together & get to know each other without the pressure of sex. If I woulda came into some money & a woman was interested in me for that reason, I still woulda gave her a chance. Companionship is aLOT better than being completely single & sleeping by myself every night. Serious romantic relationships can form for MANY different reasons. It may be physical attraction, common interests, personality, having a special skill or talent, chemistry or spark, having similar lifestyles, both being severely lonely & desperate, an arranged thing, a mail-order bride thing, political reasons, social reasons, economic reasons, & various other reasons that I have not listed. Any one reason can be just as valid as the other as long as it works for the couple. People can majorly change over time & the reasons a relationship was formed & based on originally may not last. But just because the original reasons the relationship started changed does NOT automatically mean that the couple must break up. Many relationships evolve into more deeper things as time goes on if both people involved are willing to invest some time & effort into their relationship & each other.

Yeah. I can't help but feel misguided feminism will make these types of situations worse. There is a point where not taking crap from a man turns into exploitation of a man. Calling that type of behaviour out is sometimes construed as misogyny.

The usual stereotype of the man being the bread winner doesn't help if it goes hand in hand with a strong "independent" woman that modern feminism tries to make. Someone can't be independent but depend on someone else for all their needs. Strong or not, if someone has latched onto me for their basic needs then I make all the decisions.

I think modern day feminism needs to be reigned in and have more modest goals.

I'll marry up. If I ever bother to marry that is.