Welfare IS NOT Socialism
13 Jul 2021, 4:38 pm
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Not only is Bernie Sanders not a true socialist, he's not even really a democratic socialist, because he falls in line with corporate Dems at every turn these days.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
Ever wonder why Tulsi gabbard hangs around a party that doesn't want her?
Yes! I supported her and Sanders in the past, but they've sold out too many times. .
Do you mean tow the party line? They probably have to still appeal to their support base don't they.
No, they don't. It only makes them hypocrites.
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13 Jul 2021, 4:38 pm
cyberdad wrote:
Do you mean tow the party line? They probably have to still appeal to their support base don't they.
I don't think towing the party line usually refers to that second clause. Usually it's a complaint that relates more to backing down on one cause your own base might support because you need to cooperate with your party in hopes of achieving more attention from them on another cause you support.
I don't agree with the criticism that Sanders fails to fight for progressive goals or fails achieve results at least occasionally (even if they're often not very substantial), but I don't think it's unfair to at least discuss if he's conceded on too much to achieve too little.
It's silly to treat Sanders or AOC or anyone else the way Trumpsters treat Trump, they're not perfect and the system they operate within is deeply flawed and they'd waste a lot of effort if they didn't choose the battles where they feel the most significant results might be achieved. Unfortunately that means ignoring lots of very important issues simply because they're unable to make those winnable fights.
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13 Jul 2021, 8:11 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't agree with the criticism that Sanders fails to fight for progressive goals or fails achieve results at least occasionally (even if they're often not very substantial), but I don't think it's unfair to at least discuss if he's conceded on too much to achieve too little.
Politician integrity is a matter of grade and there is no point putting people like Bernie Sanders on a pedestal as invariably he would have compromised commitments he made during electioneering.
14 Jul 2021, 5:05 am
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Not only is Bernie Sanders not a true socialist, he's not even really a democratic socialist, because he falls in line with corporate Dems at every turn these days.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
Ever wonder why Tulsi gabbard hangs around a party that doesn't want her?
Yes! I supported her and Sanders in the past, but they've sold out too many times. .
Do you mean tow the party line? They probably have to still appeal to their support base don't they.
No, they don't. It only makes them hypocrites.
Over here, we had an uncompromising left-wing party leader, Jeremy Corbyn. That.... did not turn out well. Demonised by the press and the political establishment; fighting a bitter civil war within his own party. He may have stuck to his guns, but the result was he lost two elections in a row.
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15 Jul 2021, 3:00 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Do you mean tow the party line? They probably have to still appeal to their support base don't they.
I don't think towing the party line usually refers to that second clause. Usually it's a complaint that relates more to backing down on one cause your own base might support because you need to cooperate with your party in hopes of achieving more attention from them on another cause you support.
I don't agree with the criticism that Sanders fails to fight for progressive goals or fails achieve results at least occasionally (even if they're often not very substantial), but I don't think it's unfair to at least discuss if he's conceded on too much to achieve too little.
It's silly to treat Sanders or AOC or anyone else the way Trumpsters treat Trump, they're not perfect and the system they operate within is deeply flawed and they'd waste a lot of effort if they didn't choose the battles where they feel the most significant results might be achieved. Unfortunately that means ignoring lots of very important issues simply because they're unable to make those winnable fights.
I think this mischaracterises Sanders' legislative history. He has tabled hundreds of bills and amendments that he knew wouldn't get passed. The question is whether that is more or less valuable than the achievements of someone like Nancy Pelosi, who has succeeded in bringing others along with her: https://medium.com/@SarahWoodwriter/nan ... b29e041055
15 Jul 2021, 3:22 pm
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Not only is Bernie Sanders not a true socialist, he's not even really a democratic socialist, because he falls in line with corporate Dems at every turn these days.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
If he really believed in democratic socialism, he'd leave that rotten stinking party.
Ever wonder why Tulsi gabbard hangs around a party that doesn't want her?
Yes! I supported her and Sanders in the past, but they've sold out too many times. .
Do you mean tow the party line? They probably have to still appeal to their support base don't they.
No, they don't. It only makes them hypocrites.
Over here, we had an uncompromising left-wing party leader, Jeremy Corbyn. That.... did not turn out well. Demonised by the press and the political establishment; fighting a bitter civil war within his own party. He may have stuck to his guns, but the result was he lost two elections in a row.
At least you have a progressive party with some power in your country, despite the fact that they may not be fairing so well at the moment.
We don't have that in the U.S. We have two neoliberal parties that are not fundamentally different. There is complete continuity between Republican and Democratic administrations, despite the propaganda we're fed.
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Oscar Meyer Lansky
