Arguing over money

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A few weeks ago I was made redundant from my job. The severance payment was about $35,000 after tax. At first I thought that even though I don't have an income, my partner Jane can just open another shop like she has several times in the past and go back to earning $200,000 per year.

I guess it's wrong for me to rely on her like that. It's unmanly. She thinks it's ok for her to rely on me but she's a girl. Is that a horrible gender stereotype? I don't know but Jane seems to like gender stereotypes when they benefit her. For Jane, chivalry is not dead.

To my disappointment Jane says she will not open another shop. It's too difficult. I was a little sad but it's ok. I know that running a small business is very difficult and I won't expect her to do it if she doesn't want to.

Meanwhile, we want to mortgage the house at a lower rate so that I can more easily pay it using just my DSP payments. I don't really think these payments will be enough to live on but they'll double the amount of time I can live on my savings (triple if we get a lower mortgage).

Jane has about $40,000 in savings so we decide the new mortgage should be $40,000 lower. $310,000 instead of $350,000. Jane had been planning this for a while. While she was planning the balance went down to about $345,000. So $35,000 higher than the $310,000 she wants the new mortgage to start at.

So I get an email from the banker asking for proof that I have the $35,000 in savings. I figured I'd just use my own savings as proof, although at this point I thought I'd be using Jane's.

So Jane says she wants to use my savings and not hers. She said she'd planned it that way all along. That's not the way I remember it.

At this point I'm scared. I'd been counting on those savings to live on for the next few months and now they're about to immediately go down to zero. Being unemployed with no savings is scary. When I'm unemployed my instinct is to hold onto my money, not spend it all in one day.

So we get into an argument. Jane says she wants to use the $40,000 to start another shop. I should be happy at this news because I wanted her to start another shop. Maybe I should have let this be the end of the argument.

But I'm still annoyed because a few months ago Jane had said that if she ever started another shop she'd use the money to buy either a Mercedes or a Tesla. She also said I wouldn't be allowed to drive or even be a passenger in this car and that if we went to an event I should take the bus.

So if I have money, I have to spent it on the house but if she has money, she gets to spend it on herself.

She always criticises me for buying small things that she considers to be a waste of money. Lately I've been buying these smart light bulbs for $10 or $20 each. They're my new obsession. Before it was second hand Xbox and Playstation games for $10 or $20 each.

Jane says if I keep buying small luxuries like that I can never save up for a holiday. I tried to explain that I don't think buying a thousand small luxuries for $10 each is any worse than buying one big luxury for $10,000. Either way you're spending $10,000 on something that isn't essential to life.

(personally, spending a lot of money on thing gives me anxiety. Jane seems to get anxiety from spending money small sums of money on many things).

She says if my savings are wiped out by this $35,000 bill she'll give me money when I need it. I guess that's sort of a relief but I don't like having to ask her for money because I'm worried she'll scrutinise every little thing I buy. Maybe I shouldn't worry because whenever she has a lot of money it goes to her head and then she starts buying me expensive gifts but still... I'd rather be self-reliant so I can spend money without scrutiny. That's why I wanted to use her money to lower the mortgage and my money to live on (without her prying eyes) until I get back on my feet.

I know she needs the $40,000 to open a new shop so I suggest if we get the mortgage payments down to a thousand per month we could be five hundred each and then she goes nanas.

She says we should completely separate our finances and be totally financially independent. I think it's interesting that she proposed this when I don't have any income but not when I had a job and she didn't and I was supporting her.

She says even if we separate our finances, she'll still support me if I run out of money. By giving me a loan. With interest. Now it's my turn to go nanas because when I was supporting her I was paying her $300 per week. I say she should pay me back that money. With interest.

She says it shouldn't count because she was raising our child. I remind her that I started paying that before she was pregnant. Even when she was pregnant, she was still able bodied until the third trimester. In fact she opened another shop during this time and still demanded I pay her $300 per week even though she was making triple my income.

She said she shouldn't have to pay her back for when she was pregnant. She wasn't paying for baby food or nappies during this time and her doctor visits were entirely paid for by Medicare. Should I even pay her for the month or so when she didn't know she was pregnant? Why do I have to pay her a salary for incubating a child that she wanted and I didn't?

Anyway I concede that I shouldn't have to pay her for the time she was pregnant and discover that I only started paying her a few weeks before she got pregnant. Also she says she was paying me $500 per week for some reason. I don't remember that but the bank website only has records going back one year.

Anyway, at this point in the day, I was still mad at her for making me spend my windfalls on family while she spends hers on luxury cars. In the past when I got an extra $9,000 I immediately put it into the mortgage. Why can't she do this when she has extra money? It's our house after all. I wouldn't mind her buying a stupid yuppie mobile if she just put a few Gs into the mortgage first.

She always goes on and on about how she paid for 75% of the deposit (although when she tells the story it's 80%). She says she paid for most of the house. Really she paid for most of the deposit. If she pays no more from this point I'll end up paying for 80% of the house. And she insists on saying after I pay for 80% of it she'll own half of it. Except today when for some bizarre reason she said because she paid 80% of the deposit that means when it's paid off she'll own 80% of the house.

I don't think it works like that. She told me her lawyer told her that's how it works. I think her lawyer said something else and she misunderstood. Interesting how when I'm paying most of it off she thinks it should be 50 / 50 but she thinks an imaginary law means that she owns most of it she doesn't want to say it's 50 / 50.

She wants me to save up for things like a holiday or a private school for our daughter. She says I'll get more enjoyment from buying big things instead of small things. But the big things are usually things she wants.

If I buy a small thing today it will be something I want. If I buy a big thing next year it will be something she wanted so it feels like a way for her to get my disposable income.

I don't really want to send our daughter to a private school because they're too religious. I don't want to pay all that money for my daughter to be lied to.

50 / 50. In a way I should be happy. There would be certain advantages to this for me. I could live without any scrutiny and my savings would be strictly for myself. But I still don't like it. I wanted to 50 our mortgage, not everything. She wanted to 50 50 our mortgage a few months ago but she's fickler than the cat. I didn't realise she no longer wanted to do that. I guess I didn't realise I'm supposed to be a mind reader. I feel like separating our finances just after I lost my job is an inopportune time to do it. I felt unsafe.

She said I've spent the last two years doing nothing while she did all the housework. I shouted at her that I've been working for the last two years! I hate the idea that when one member of a couple is working full time and the other is not, they should share half of housekeeping and child rearing duties.

She made up a strawman argument that when she's running her shop, if I haven't found a job by this point I'll still make her do all the housework. I said I would not. If I'm home all day and she's working I'd do the housework. It's only fair.

Shouting at each other is a normal occurrence for us but she still said we should separate (also a normal occurrence for us). I've been dumped by her as many times as George Jetson has been fired by Mr Spacely yet the next morning we always find ourselves back in the same situation. Still in the same relationship.

This time Jane even said that she wouldn't make me look after the baby for 3 days per week. At first I was happy. I thought this was my chance to get away from my hair trigger partner who always shouts and swears and rages at me over every little mistake I make. and I wouldn't even have to look after the baby.

But then I feel kind of sad. What if, when our daughter grows from a baby into a child I actually want to be a part of her everyday life? While I find looking after a baby to be extremely unpleasant to the point where it gives me anxiety, raising a child could be a very different activity. Maybe it's not as bad.

Then I have another reason to feel sad. What if I'm shirking my responsibilities? What if the fact that I hate looking after a baby is the reason I must do it? The sensation of guilt was so strong that I cried silently into my bathwater.

The argument started to wind down into the evening. We both blamed each other for wasting the whole day. We both accused the other of being controlling.

I still want her to pay some into the mortgage. Not once has she contributed to it since she paid for the deposit. She still talks about how she's paid most of it. In the first year she had paid most of it up to that point (even though, with the mortgage solely in my name, I was liable for the amount owing so it already felt like I had/would pay more than her). After I pay the $35,000 I will have actually paid more than her, even counting the extra $10,000 she spent on installing solar panels.

She wants me to take this 84 hour per week FIFO job in the desert. I'm thinking about it but I don't want my money from such a difficult job to all to the family while her earnings all go to herself.

And I hate how she says she's better at managing money because I don't have any savings after paying all bills and the mortgage and giving her $300 per week until very recently. Of course I don't have any savings when I'm the one paying for everything. She shouldn't boast about her savings when she has no living expenses. She didn't even save that money from her income. She just got it from selling one of her shops. And sometimes her mother just gives her $20,000. That's not saving.

I almost think that Jane is deliberately making me pay for everything so I don't have any left over for savings just so she can say she's better with money because I have no savings.

And that time I got an extra $9,000 I could have saved it. But I put it into the mortgage. So I guess that doesn't count as savings according to her.

Earlier in the day she was saying she'd give me $10,000 to help me after I paid the $35,000 but I think she's forgotten about that.

At this point I was still thinking about dumping her. I told her she shouldn't call me stupid all the time. It's demeaning. This caused her to start calling me stupid over and over again because she's mature like that. Sometimes when I don't want her to do something I find it's better to not mention it, because if I tell her not to do something she'll just start doing it. I'm expected to strictly not do anything she doesn't want me to do or she'll act like I pìssed in the Queen's English Breakfast Tea.

She says even if I decide not to dump her. She can still dump me. Normally this would be true. But why is she trying to pìss me off? Almost like an employee who's trying to get fired so he doesn't have to quit. I question her on this and she reveals that if she dumps me, her mother will become extremely mad at her but if I dump her, her mother will say it wasn't her fault.

Now I definitely don't want to dump her. Partly because I rather like her mother. She usually takes my side in arguments. She's always telling Jane she should respect me more. My best revenge against Jane will not be dumping her but continuing to live with her so she can be annoyed by my presence.

But Jane is pretty smart when it comes to social skills. I start thinking, what if she knows I'll think this way and she doesn't want me to dump her so she made up a story in which she does what me to dump her so I'll do the opposite. She could be using reverse psychology on me. But if she knows that I know that she'll use reverse psychology than she could be using reverse reverse psychology on me.

We end our argument in the usual way. By me saying she didn't really want to dump me, she just wanted to upset me. She knows that even when I actually want to separate from her I still get anxiety at the thought of actually doing it. She says she always wins every argument against me and I say that's only because she uses a combination of psychological tactics and sheer persistent willpower (making the argument as unpleasant as possible for both of us, knowing I'll give in first).

She said she'll give me $300 per week like I used to give her. I guess this will help me. So I guess I'll stay with her. Tomorrow she'll start shouting and raging at me over some slight mistake. Also she'll call me stupid 50 times. But sometimes we have fun together. We can support each other financially and in other ways. Did I make the right decision or should I have taken the opportunity to go away from her?

I don't want to separate and then have her chaise me with her scary lawyers. I don't want her to manipulate me into selling the house. It's the perfect house for me, not because of how it looks but because of how the interior is shaped. It's rather plain to look at but she shape is like being inside an inverted sculpture. It's very Zen. I've never seen another house like it.

So am I the ăsshole for arguing over money? Or was I justly scared? Am I the coward for not ripping her out of my life like a Band-Aid?

I'd be feeling extremely uncomfortable in your shoes. I value honesty in my closest relationships too much.

What I thought was: what do You want?
I gather you like the house and you want to keep it.
You like your small pleasures and don't want to be bugged about them.
Anything else?

I guess the other things I want are time alone and respect. By respect I don't mean I want to be lorded over. Just the sort of respect that she be afforded to any human being.

Also I want her to stop shouting in front of the baby. I don't want the baby to see that.

Is she capable of giving you what you need?

She wants you to RIDE THE BUS while she drives?

This lady is a real piece of work…

That right there is enough for me to think perhaps it would be better to reconsider the relationship. Or maybe try getting like a relationship therapist but it would only work if she is willing to go as well which from what you post I don't really have the impression she would. There is just so much wrong there its hard to find where to start. Seems like borderline abuse, but not sure she sees it that way but either way does seem she kind of just wants to take advantage while she gets all the benefits from it.

Like sure it would be great for her if you make a bunch of money at some 85 hours a week job, and she gets to spend your money on stuff for her...but what about you? What do you get out of that deal virtually no time away from work and exhaustion for having no time for sleep and a relationship where your partner would make you take the bus to an event/activity the two of you attend...doesn't seem worth it to me.

Unless you really like taking the bus, but I get the impression that is not the case.

I think the Plane Oxygen Mask Rule needs to be applied here: care for yourself first. The rule works for mental health in relationships and I believe it applies to your situation.
So, you're the priority for yourself. It's not selfish. You need your mental health not to harm others.

Will you be pursuing IT for your next job?

Is it possible she may have a cluster B personality disorder (like NPD or BPD)?

The way you describe her makes me wonder sometimes....

Is she intentionally trying to hurt you?

Most of the time, when we love someone, we try to never hurt them intentionally. But sometimes we all hurt others by accident....

Money is always going to be a constant argument in any relationship that involves housing or mortgages, car payments, time away from work, and children. Partners don't always agree on how and when to spend and save. However, in preparation of child 2 coming and my wife getting her permit to driver alone, we were able to find a savings of 200 dollars on unnecessary monthly spending. One of which included cutting netflix out of our monthly spending as well as removing her health insurance in favor of adding her to my workplace insurance that I don't pay into anyway.

For me, I have had to put my foot down recently in regards to her driving (or lack of licensing) and state that I will be moving our child to a closer daycare to home as the back and forth driving 20- 25 km away and back twice a day is too much for me... especially as gas and insurance costs increase. 5 days a week at this, and you include 400-500 km driven for a monthly cost of 200 plus in gas as well. She elected to get her license, but has to wait a while for her test due to a backlog.

Now of course, I relate this to your experience for a reason. I know you didn't ask me to, but I have to wonder as I am not privy to all of your posts here, what happens when you try to establish your own boundaries with your partner.

Split the mortgage pay down 50/50, then split the new shop startup 50/50. Boom, you both spend the same amount of money, and you're both equally invested business partners and have mutual shared interests in making the finances work. That way you won't be all in on the mortgage with no assurance that she'll even open another shop, and she can't manipulate you into going broke and then not follow through opening a shop.

So it's over. The argument is over and we've gone back to pretending to be a normal couple. I'm kind of disturbed that it happened. No more big arguments for a while. Just normal size arguments for now.

As a tax and financial professional, I think refinancing the mortgage to a lower interest rate is a great idea (if you can even do it while unemployed), but I would NOT pay the principle down. Doing so presses you far too hard financially, and a mortgage is the cheapest interest loan out there. Leverage can be your friend, when done wisely. Leaving a mortgage you already have in place is generally considered to be smart leverage. You both have reasons to want cash available right now. Don't pay down the principle on the mortgage in the refinance.

I'm also concerned about the words she uses when you fight. It would be helpful if you could work on that as a couple, or with a professional if needed.

Relationships should be give and take. Sometimes you are the strong one financially and/or emotionally carrying both of you; sometimes she will be. The person who can do the carrying should be the one who does it, not tit or tat but based on current financial, emotional and physical health. Or, even split. It's a constant evolution.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 19 Jul 2021, 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

One more reason to keep the mortgage principal is that it seems Jane tries to get him to pay it down as fast as possible.. possibly because she's plotting to have him pay off the house and then claim she owns 80% of it because she put a larger portion of the down payment down, and then kick his ass out with a 20% buyout & take the house. Wouldn't surprise me from the sneaky manipulative bs Retro has shared about her.

I'm afraid I don't know how the laws work in Australia, so I don't know if that could be the play, but I admit to finding it strange that she is pressuring him to pay the mortgage down as quickly as possible. Here in the US no one would advise that unless a couple was retiring and financially secure.

It's probably why she had information from her lawyer telling her she owns 80% of the house because she put 80% of the down payment down. Why else would her lawyer tell her that unless she asked the lawyer?

I also don't know Australian law, but, what if the lawyer is correct - that she Does own 80% of the house for putting 80% of the dp down? And then it gets paid off with money they earned jointly, but she still takes 80% if they split.. what IF Australian law works that way and that's her plan? If I were Retro I'd be talking to a lawyer myself.