66% of southern republicans want to Secede from the US

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Interstingly, I haven't questioned the data - What I AM questioning is the highly prejudical assumptions being put forward as "facts" to explain the data.

Neither the article, nor posts from the OP, contain any facts\data to support the assertions put forward regarding the reason behind the "southern republicans" desiring to secede, nor behind Califonia's desire to secede, with the only "reasons" put forward coming from a hyper-partisan background and designed to support that own hyper-partisanship- no factual evidence upon which those claims are based has been provided (despite the claims being presented as "fact"), which has been the point I have continually made through this.


I do so hope you are enjoying the wait (it will certainly be a long one) - my posts are designed to assist others by pointing out hyperpartisan prejudice being presented as fact, not posting for any particular member's personal gratification.

Pleae remember that others are not here on the site to fulfil your wishes, and are under no requirement to respond to yourself in a manner you desire - much as there are members on this site who have been waiting for quite some time for you to provide evidence to substantiate claims you have made, but who do not make a big deal of your pattern of avoidance of their requests.


^ Confession through projection...

As a friendly suggestion, you may like to look into the difference between fact, opinion, belief, and prejudice:

Source: https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm

The importance of the rural-urban divide should not be over emphasized. Some things are unique to the South, in particular the Bible Belt.

This is why the COVID-19 pandemic is so much worse in the US than in Canada despite all our vaccines.

Curiously, the data doesn't seem to reflect this assertion - Only 4 of them appear within the top 10 states based on cases\1m population (the first of which coming in at 6th place), 4 in the top 10 states based on deaths\1m people (5th place being the highest), and only 2 in the top 10 of active cases (2nd and 5th), with a number of them appearing to have below average (national) numbers on these categories:
http://srv1.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

For some people, "facts" are not that important.
It is the "feelings" that count.

"You go, gurl!"

From my experience, you are one of the most credible people on this website.
You do the hard yakka in research, so, while I will maintain an open mind, I tend to believe the conclusions you have arrived at.

I am getting lazy, in my old age.
It is easier to trust what you say.

Just a word of warning:
You mess with the Bictorian bull, you get the horns.

Brictoria's credibility score: 9.5.

Err will this is a new manoeuvre! hmmm lets do a little sanity check shall we,,,,

this is news and current affairs (tick)

I post a news story (tick)

The story is based on survey data (tick)

Instead of commenting about either the story or the survey data you immediately launched into a rant about
a) assumptions I made
b) hyperpartisanship
c) your role as the guardian of morals and virtues on WP
d) some of definitions of terms that have nothing to do with the story (tick)

The original post consisted of 2 components:
The first (the actual "fact"\data based component):

This was presented in a neutral manner, and so I did not address that portion.

However, the second portion was presented as being "factual", and\or supported by the content of the article, and it has been this which I have focussed on:

Nowhere in the article could I find any mention made of:
"the "part of Abraham Lincoln" wants to fly confederate flags and bring back Jim Crow"
Anything to support assertions that "patriotism from the right was fake", let alone confirming it.
"California and Hawaii are the only culturally progressive states in the US not dominated by the white christian right"

A simple reading of what I have posted here throughout would show that the point I have been making was in regards to those prejudicial components of the post, being presented as "fact", and\or as though they are supported by the linked article, which in fact states:


When a person posts a link to an article, and puts forward assertions (such as those above) in a manner that indicates the article supports the assertions, yet nothing in the article provides that support, the asssertions do not consist of fact, but are instead either "opinion", "belief", or "prejudice". Given the content and phrasing of those assertions, they appear to sit firmly within the category of "prejudice", as I had noted (further supported by analysis of other, similar remarks elsewhere on the site).

Of course, I could be mistaken, or misread the article, and as such look forward to seeing a quote(s) from the article upon which this thread (and your comments regarding it) was based that supports all of the following otherwise prejudiced comments:
* That the "part of Abraham Lincoln" wants to fly confederate flags
* That the "part of Abraham Lincoln" wants to bring back Jim Crow
* That the supposed patriotism from the right was fake
* That anything within the article confirm any of the above
* That California and Hawaii are the only culturally progressive states in the US not dominated by the white christian right

It's probably worth noting that at least one state from the highlighted area has exported 5 cases to a state outside that region through an irresponsible[1] "superspreader" event:


Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/18/politics/texas-house-democrats-covid-19/index.html

[1] irresponsible in terms of ignoring CDC recommendations:

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/travel-during-covid19.html

err, where did I say the article said there will be a civil war?

I am talking about a "mindset" that seems stuck in an antebellum time warp. The survey does indicate a common thought process in the south which is what I am focusing on and you seem to be carefully and studiously avoiding.

I'm not avoiding it...I have specificaaly asked for the details I apparently missed in the article:


So, here's your chance - Provide the quotes from the article that answer the above prejudiced remarks which were presented as fact...

In fact, let's add to the list the quotes that support the further biased\prejudiced remarks that the article refers to


Without supporting evidence from the source, which was the basis for the assertions, these are in no way expressions of fact, but seem intended to collectively demean\belittle\dehumanise a large group of people through the experession of prejudiced views of them in a manner designed to have the reader believe they are true...

This is simply an observation:

Presenting an article that hasn't been fully read or understood, by the presenter, is quite common here, and some people have been repeatedly caught out in this.

This is a very bad move when Brictoria and myself are committed to the conversation because we usually do the follow-through with the hard yakka and read the said article in detail.
This result is embarrassment for the person who hasn't done his/her due diligence.
You would think he/she would have learnt by now.

In other news, people in Hell want ice-water.

Neither group is getting what it wants.

It’s not just people from the South.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... t-to%3famp

You don't need to be any kind of partisan to know exactly why so many Southerners want to secede again. It is part of the famous Southern victim complex. The Civil War to them is seen as a war of Northern aggression. The Civil Rights movement was to them outside agitators and northerners forcing their values on the south. The Confederacy has been romanticized in the South every waking moment for the last 160 years. Secession is seen as the only way to restore southern Christian (white) culture against those damn godless Northerners meddling in Southern social issues. You do not need to be on a specific side of the aisle to realize any of this.
Again, it feels like having to cite sources for saying the sky is blue, but if you want reading about Southern nationalism, the Lost Cause of the Confederacy narrative, and the modern Southern victim complex:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/neo-confederate
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/lost-cause-definition-and-origins
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/08/12/secessionists-push-for-south-break-away-from-again/2LGA8GkZvrK05OERX7RVdK/story.html

Most modern secessionists will probably not cite the need to protect the white race as one of their reasons for wanting to secede, but the roots of all secessionist sentiment lie in racism. Secession was always about resisting efforts by the rest of the country to 'impose' equality on the South. Few will openly say they hate the North protecting the rights of black Americans. Few even consciously think that. The modern reasons given are the (conveniently vague) grievances of the North imposing "non-traditional" values on the South. Which is to say: values that women, queers, and non-Christians should be treated equally. Christianity (as they conceive it) is their main justification, along with amoral legalistic arguments as to why the North was breaking the law in how they imposed Civil Rights and Emancipation. That and, naturally, arguments that the North is becoming anti-patriotic and socialist (man, I wish). Even in the Confederate constitution--one nearly identical to the US constitution, they explicitly state that their government was founded to do the will of "almighty God" by upholding slavery.

As for the North/South vs Urban/Rural divides:
It almost goes without saying that modern politics--especially in the US--are increasingly defined by the urban/rural divide. Few will deny this.
Few will also deny the role played by the much older, more deep-seated North/South divide. Since before this country was founded, Southern elites (and white Southerners who bought their bs) viewed the North with suspicion and paranoia. Even during the war for independence, representatives from the Southern colonies threatened to pull their support for the war when other representatives tried to condemn slavery in the Declaration of Independence, and then stopped any attempts to abolish slavery when the Constitution was being formulated. Even in those days, it was predicted the issue of slavery would have to be decided with bloodshed.
If the urban/rural divide seems to have a lot in common with the north/South divide, it's because the rhetoric of Southern grievances has heavily influenced modern conservative discourse at large since the Civil Rights movement. Talk of "state's rights", "Christian liberty", "traditional values", "small government" (ie: small federal government, less influence of non-Southerners on the South), and "pride in Western (read: white) culture". The Confederate flag has even become a general symbol for conservatives anywhere in the country--including the North--as a show of contempt for modern values and the federal government (but, obviously, not so much for the countless perfectly good reasons for hating the Fed. Moreso bc the Fed shoves Civil Rights legislation down the throats of social conservatives).