FBI Thwart wing terrorists from attacking civilians

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Kraichgauer
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21 Jul 2021, 4:58 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Is that horses**t serious?!?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Well, it's certainly an interesting series of events when the evidence is looked at:
Quote:
The government has documented at least 12 confidential informants who assisted the sprawling investigation. The trove of evidence they helped gather provides an unprecedented view into American extremism, laying out in often stunning detail the ways that anti-government groups network with each other and, in some cases, discuss violent actions.

An examination of the case by BuzzFeed News also reveals that some of those informants, acting under the direction of the FBI, played a far larger role than has previously been reported. Working in secret, they did more than just passively observe and report on the actions of the suspects. Instead, they had a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot, starting with its inception. The extent of their involvement raises questions as to whether there would have even been a conspiracy without them.

A longtime government informant from Wisconsin, for example, helped organize a series of meetings around the country where many of the alleged plotters first met one another and the earliest notions of a plan took root, some of those people say. The Wisconsin informant even paid for some hotel rooms and food as an incentive to get people to come.

The Iraq War vet, for his part, became so deeply enmeshed in a Michigan militant group that he rose to become its second-in-command, encouraging members to collaborate with other potential suspects and paying for their transportation to meetings. He prodded the alleged mastermind of the kidnapping plot to advance his plan, then baited the trap that led to the arrest.

This account is based on an analysis of court filings, transcripts, exhibits, audio recordings, and other documents, as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case, including several who were present at meetings and training sessions where prosecutors say the plot was hatched. All but one of the 14 original defendants have pleaded not guilty, and they vigorously deny that they were involved in a conspiracy to kidnap anyone.

The prosecution gathered thousands of social media posts, some 400,000 text messages, and more than 1,300 hours of recordings — including audio or video from all three vehicles it alleges traveled to Birch Lake on the night of Sept. 12. It maintains that this evidence shows many of those who were charged not only expressed anti-government sentiments, but also took concrete steps toward the goal of kidnapping or killing law enforcement officers and elected officials.

But the defendants, as well as others caught up in the sweeping investigation — which stretched from Baltimore to Kansas City — claim their talk never rose beyond the level of fantasy and they never intended to harm anyone. Although they have not denied participating in training events, attending meetings, and communicating with other defendants, they claim that no actual conspiracy to kidnap the governor ever existed.

Instead, they say, they were targeted because of their political views. Some describe the case as a premeditated campaign by the government to undermine the Patriot movement, an ideology based on fealty to the Second Amendment and the conviction that the government has violated the Constitution and is therefore illegitimate. They argue that the recordings and text messages that the government calls proof of a criminal conspiracy are in fact constitutionally protected speech — expressions of frustration at what they see as the government’s betrayal of its citizens.

Attorneys for all but one of the defendants declined invitations to comment on the record for this story. To date, one defendant has formally accused the government of entrapment, arguing that the FBI assembled the key plotters, encouraged the group's anti-government feelings, and even gave its members military-style training. Additional defendants have said they plan to make similar claims when the cases, divided between federal and state court, go to trial starting as soon as October.

Last week, the lawyer for one defendant filed a motion that included texts from an FBI agent to a key informant, the Iraq War veteran, directing him to draw specific people into the conspiracy — potential evidence of entrapment that he said the government “inadvertently disclosed.” He is requesting all texts sent and received by that informant, and other attorneys are now considering motions that accuse the government of intentionally withholding evidence of entrapment.

Meanwhile, Gregory Townsend, one of the lead prosecutors handling the cases against eight of the defendants in Michigan state court, was reassigned in May pending an attorney general audit into whether he had withheld evidence about deals cut with informants during a murder and arson trial in Oakland County in 2000. And on Sunday, in a matter apparently unrelated to the alleged kidnapping conspiracy, one of the lead FBI agents in the case, Richard J. Trask, was charged in state court in Kalamazoo with assault with intent to do great bodily harm.

Source: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/michigan-kidnapping-gretchen-whitmer-fbi-informant

It's also interesting to look at the origin of the group behind this:
Quote:
Joe Morrison founded the Wolverine Watchmen in November 2019, just four days after he’d been hauled into court on a minor gun possession charge, and from its first days, the group focused on discussing police abuse and fantasizing about fighting back — what an FBI agent in the case later described as “a grievance and hatred towards law enforcement.”

Members decried police killings of civilians, including Breonna Taylor, Oscar Grant, and Eric Garner, three Black people shot to death by police officers, along with LaVoy Finicum, a rancher killed by law enforcement during a standoff in Oregon’s timber country in 2016. They labeled the FBI domestic terrorists and the Michigan state police the “Gestapo,” while calling for attacks on the ATF and other federal law enforcement agencies.

Source: As above.

It's amazing what sort of things you can learn if you look further into these types of incidents...


No, they're not being persecuted for their political beliefs . They're violent fanatics who wanted to do harm to their state governor because they hated her for "denying them freedom" by making them wear masks during the epidemic.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jul 2021, 5:00 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The_Znof wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
God bless the FBI for stopping these goons!


god save the FBI for not nailing Epstein but instead making propaganda with fake terrorists.

Exactly.
The FBI has proven themselves to be partisan hack organization that spys on Americans who are on the "wrong" side politically.


Spying on Americans "on the wrong side politically" saved people's lives.


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funeralxempire
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21 Jul 2021, 5:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, they're not being persecuted for their political beliefs . They're violent fanatics who wanted to do harm to their state governor because they hated her for "denying them freedom" by making them wear masks during the epidemic.


To be fair their political views are the foundation of their actions. They're being punished for their political view that plotting violence against their opponents was an acceptable action that they were entitled to take.

And it's just not right to lock up violent criminals who plot violent crimes. :wink:


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jul 2021, 5:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, they're not being persecuted for their political beliefs . They're violent fanatics who wanted to do harm to their state governor because they hated her for "denying them freedom" by making them wear masks during the epidemic.


To be fair their political views are the foundation of their actions. They're being punished for their political view that plotting violence against their opponents was an acceptable action that they were entitled to take.

And it's just not right to lock up violent criminals who plot violent crimes. :wink:


to be sure, it's when those right wing beliefs are manifested in physical action, or plots for said physical action, then those beliefs are fair game.
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.


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21 Jul 2021, 6:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.


Again in bold. 8)


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jul 2021, 6:09 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.


Again in bold. 8)


8)


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21 Jul 2021, 8:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
The_Znof wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
God bless the FBI for stopping these goons!


god save the FBI for not nailing Epstein but instead making propaganda with fake terrorists.

Exactly.
The FBI has proven themselves to be partisan hack organization that spys on Americans who are on the "wrong" side politically.


Spying on Americans "on the wrong side politically" saved people's lives.


please elaborate, without glossing over the gaslighting MLK stuff.

to be clear there is hard evidence of the FBI stalking MLK



Brictoria
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21 Jul 2021, 8:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.

Interesting: I hadn't seen anyone on this forum making that suggestion - could you provide some indication of the posts which do this?

Or was that remark made under the mistaken belief that people only post what they personally believe, rather than having the capacity to put forward information supporting other opinions than their own?


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jul 2021, 9:57 pm

The_Znof wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.


Again in bold. 8)


8)


you are a moron sir


I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be rude.
As for your earlier question: Right wing white nationalist types can and do plot to hurt other Americans - this has been documented again and again. Their grandfathers would have loved to have strung up Dr. King.


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21 Jul 2021, 10:00 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.

Interesting: I hadn't seen anyone on this forum making that suggestion - could you provide some indication of the posts which do this?

Or was that remark made under the mistaken belief that people only post what they personally believe, rather than having the capacity to put forward information supporting other opinions than their own?


I take it to be personal belief, especially when the matter at hand is a clear case of right and wrong regarding political violence.


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Brictoria
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21 Jul 2021, 10:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.

Interesting: I hadn't seen anyone on this forum making that suggestion - could you provide some indication of the posts which do this?

Or was that remark made under the mistaken belief that people only post what they personally believe, rather than having the capacity to put forward information supporting other opinions than their own?


I take it to be personal belief, especially when the matter at hand is a clear case of right and wrong regarding political violence.

Intersting: Where do you feel you are on the political spectrum, given the source of the articles from where the quotes you interpret as being "based solely out of sympathy for the far right" are taken is:
Quote:
BUZZFEED NEWS MEDIA BIAS RATINGS
Does BuzzFeed News lean left or right?
Lean Left by ad fontes media
Left by All Sides
Lean Left by Media Bias/Fact Check

Source: https://ground.news/interest/buzzfeed-news
Image
Source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/buzzfeed-news/


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


Kraichgauer
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22 Jul 2021, 1:22 am

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.

Interesting: I hadn't seen anyone on this forum making that suggestion - could you provide some indication of the posts which do this?

Or was that remark made under the mistaken belief that people only post what they personally believe, rather than having the capacity to put forward information supporting other opinions than their own?


I take it to be personal belief, especially when the matter at hand is a clear case of right and wrong regarding political violence.

Intersting: Where do you feel you are on the political spectrum, given the source of the articles from where the quotes you interpret as being "based solely out of sympathy for the far right" are taken is:
Quote:
BUZZFEED NEWS MEDIA BIAS RATINGS
Does BuzzFeed News lean left or right?
Lean Left by ad fontes media
Left by All Sides
Lean Left by Media Bias/Fact Check

Source: https://ground.news/interest/buzzfeed-news
Image
Source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/buzzfeed-news/


Where am I on the spectrum? Probably somewhere around left-center or left.


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22 Jul 2021, 3:51 am

Brictoria wrote:


I'd be very slighty centre left



cyberdad
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22 Jul 2021, 3:54 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Calling a fact a lie does not make it a lie either.


Classic obfuscation. The FBI thwarted right wing terrorists and the usual suspects are trying to make everyone gorge themselves in pickled red herrings to avoid stating the FBI saved lives from MAGAs with white supremacist affiliations.



Brictoria
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22 Jul 2021, 4:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:


I'd be very slighty centre left

Image


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


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22 Jul 2021, 5:10 am

Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those on this forum suggesting that these fanatics are only being "persecuted" for their beliefs are showing their hand, based solely out of sympathy for the far right.

Interesting: I hadn't seen anyone on this forum making that suggestion - could you provide some indication of the posts which do this?



WP is a straw man factory. lol :mrgreen:

Whenever I ask for evidence, via a simple cut & paste, it is never forthcoming.
Quite telling. 8)

@ Kraichgauer.
Could you cut & paste where people have indicated what you are postulating? :wink:


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