Texas Senate Bill - Can’t teach KKK is morally wrong

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funeralxempire
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25 Jul 2021, 7:46 pm

QFT wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QFT wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QFT wrote:
Now, I personally don't know enough American history to really judge which of the two narratives is true. But that is precisely why I believe both narratives should be taught in schools, so that students can judge for themselves.


If you really don't know enough to know what was true that means the school system failed you, that failure is a problem that needs to be resolved so no more kids grow up not knowing the Lost Cause is nonsense.

I'm sorry that they failed you like that, otherwise you might have more informed opinions to share. :nerdy:


In school they taught me the Union version. As far as Confederate version I only learned it as an adult in my 30-s. But once I learned it I realize I can't really know one way or the other.


You could do your own research instead of believing there's two official accounts and that means truth can't exist. :roll:


I could. I just don't have time because I am specializing in physics and not in history and I there are things in physics I kept wishing to do that I couldn't get to thats why I didn't have time to study anything extra.

But when I find time to do my own research I will. I mean this thing is interesting so even if its not my field I would gladly read about it. I just can't promise you to do it any time soon. But I hope I will get to it some time.

In any case, just the fact that there are people with extensive knowledge of history that take both sides, that is proof enough that its not as clear as you think. Otherwise one of the sides would have been converted to the other side a long time ago. So in order for me to ever say "okay this side is right and that other side is wrong" I would have to become more knowledgeble of history than the best historians on both sides, and this is quite a tall order.


There's people who still peddle Lost Cause BS but they're not informed, they're just people repeating lies.

The fact that some people are so ideologically committed to BS they keep trying to legitimize it isn't proof of a genuine controversy and if you fall for their lies it makes whatever arguments you make while invoking them worthless as well.


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25 Jul 2021, 9:48 pm

QFT wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QFT wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QFT wrote:
Now, I personally don't know enough American history to really judge which of the two narratives is true. But that is precisely why I believe both narratives should be taught in schools, so that students can judge for themselves.


If you really don't know enough to know what was true that means the school system failed you, that failure is a problem that needs to be resolved so no more kids grow up not knowing the Lost Cause is nonsense.

I'm sorry that they failed you like that, otherwise you might have more informed opinions to share. :nerdy:


In school they taught me the Union version. As far as Confederate version I only learned it as an adult in my 30-s. But once I learned it I realize I can't really know one way or the other.


You could do your own research instead of believing there's two official accounts and that means truth can't exist. :roll:


I could. I just don't have time because I am specializing in physics and not in history and I there are things in physics I kept wishing to do that I couldn't get to thats why I didn't have time to study anything extra.

But when I find time to do my own research I will. I mean this thing is interesting so even if its not my field I would gladly read about it. I just can't promise you to do it any time soon. But I hope I will get to it some time.

In any case, just the fact that there are people with extensive knowledge of history that take both sides, that is proof enough that its not as clear as you think. Otherwise one of the sides would have been converted to the other side a long time ago. So in order for me to ever say "okay this side is right and that other side is wrong" I would have to become more knowledgeble of history than the best historians on both sides, and this is quite a tall order.


I have a degree in history, and I can tell you, the people pushing the notion that the south was being persecuted by the north, and that slavery had nothing to do with the war, are full of sh*t.


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25 Jul 2021, 10:44 pm

Slavery. Was. Wrong.

Full stop.

There is no debate on that subject.


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26 Jul 2021, 12:29 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Slavery. Was. Wrong.

Full stop.

There is no debate on that subject.


Just for the record, I never mentioned that there is a debate on whether slavery was wrong. I mentioned that there is a debate on whether KKK is wrong, as well as a debate on whether the civil war was about slavery.

But regardless, here is the thing:

a) If it is obvious that "something" is wrong, why should the teacher bother saying it?

b) If its not obvious, then there is a debate, so the teacher should acknolwdge it.



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26 Jul 2021, 2:22 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
That's not accurate.

They're simply dropping a requirement to teach the KKK is immoral.

Teachers can still teach it.


Completely wrong!

Senate Bill 3 passed by the Texas senate states "A teacher may not be compelled to discuss a particular event of controversial issue...": this follows the housebill 3739 regarding banning saying "the KKK is morally wrong"

The wording goes on to say
- An individual bears no responsibility for the actions committed in the past by members of their race or sex
- An individual should not feel discomfort, guilt, anguish or psychological distress on account of their race or sex
- slavery and racism are to be considered (by teachers) as deviations from betrayals or failure to live up the authentic found principles of the United States

This therefore opens the door for any white student to lodge a complaint about their teacher if they feel any of the above and opens the door for punitive measures to be taken against the teacher.

And its already happened



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26 Jul 2021, 12:00 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
That's not accurate.

They're simply dropping a requirement to teach the KKK is immoral.

Teachers can still teach it.


Completely wrong!

Senate Bill 3 passed by the Texas senate states "A teacher may not be compelled to discuss a particular event of controversial issue...": this follows the housebill 3739 regarding banning saying "the KKK is morally wrong"

The wording goes on to say
- An individual bears no responsibility for the actions committed in the past by members of their race or sex
- An individual should not feel discomfort, guilt, anguish or psychological distress on account of their race or sex
- slavery and racism are to be considered (by teachers) as deviations from betrayals or failure to live up the authentic found principles of the United States

This therefore opens the door for any white student to lodge a complaint about their teacher if they feel any of the above and opens the door for punitive measures to be taken against the teacher.

And its already happened


You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.



funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2021, 12:02 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


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26 Jul 2021, 12:50 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.



funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2021, 12:57 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.


I'm familiar with the history of the Black Panthers, care to cite some examples of the violence you allege?

The Klan is relevant when discussing American history no matter what pretzel logic you rely on to pretend otherwise and no matter how many attempts you make to speak for communities you not a part of.


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


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26 Jul 2021, 2:31 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.


I'm familiar with the history of the Black Panthers, care to cite some examples of the violence you allege?

The Klan is relevant when discussing American history no matter what pretzel logic you rely on to pretend otherwise and no matter how many attempts you make to speak for communities you not a part of.

https://www.history.com/topics/civil-ri ... #section_3
Heres a link to some Black Panther violence. But really how relevant is the Klan today? You hear people invoke the Klan and yes they are very bad people but what do they do? They are more important to the left as a boogyman organization than to anyone else.



funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2021, 2:47 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.


I'm familiar with the history of the Black Panthers, care to cite some examples of the violence you allege?

The Klan is relevant when discussing American history no matter what pretzel logic you rely on to pretend otherwise and no matter how many attempts you make to speak for communities you not a part of.

https://www.history.com/topics/civil-ri ... #section_3
Heres a link to some Black Panther violence. But really how relevant is the Klan today? You hear people invoke the Klan and yes they are very bad people but what do they do? They are more important to the left as a boogyman organization than to anyone else.


Are you really trying to pretend that the Klan aren't relevant in an era when alt-right and white supremacist terrorists are the biggest security threat America faces? Just because nowadays they're more likely to call themselves militias than Knights doesn't change who they are.

Compared to violence from white supremacists the violence associated with the Black Panthers is pretty small scale but I suppose mentioning it works as a diversionary tactic to people who buy into the notion of scary black men, speaking of boogeymen. You also didn't provide any evidence of them engaging in the sorts of denial of civil rights the Klan and other white supremacists were known for - because they didn't, because they're not actually analogous to the Klan in their actions or in their connections to the local power structure through-out the country.


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Mr Reynholm
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26 Jul 2021, 4:23 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.


I'm familiar with the history of the Black Panthers, care to cite some examples of the violence you allege?

The Klan is relevant when discussing American history no matter what pretzel logic you rely on to pretend otherwise and no matter how many attempts you make to speak for communities you not a part of.

https://www.history.com/topics/civil-ri ... #section_3
Heres a link to some Black Panther violence. But really how relevant is the Klan today? You hear people invoke the Klan and yes they are very bad people but what do they do? They are more important to the left as a boogyman organization than to anyone else.


Are you really trying to pretend that the Klan aren't relevant in an era when alt-right and white supremacist terrorists are the biggest security threat America faces? Just because nowadays they're more likely to call themselves militias than Knights doesn't change who they are.

Compared to violence from white supremacists the violence associated with the Black Panthers is pretty small scale but I suppose mentioning it works as a diversionary tactic to people who buy into the notion of scary black men, speaking of boogeymen. You also didn't provide any evidence of them engaging in the sorts of denial of civil rights the Klan and other white supremacists were known for - because they didn't, because they're not actually analogous to the Klan in their actions or in their connections to the local power structure through-out the country.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
You know that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real either don't you?
The Klan (a Democrat organization) is a thing of the past. The so-called "White National Supremacists" are not real. This is the Left and the MSM creating the Boogyman to scare you into hating everyone that didn't vote for the DNC.
You need to get out of the house and talk to some real people. A diverse group of people; Left, Right, Red, Yellow, Black and White. I think you'll be suprised.



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26 Jul 2021, 4:53 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You are not considering the flip side of this. The Klan is not the only group to have done evil in the world. If something the Black Panthers had done in the 60's or BLM has done recently comes up they can't make a moral judgement either. That may cause emotional distress for others colors of kids.


I don't recall either of those groups being terrorist organizations who's primary mission was to deny American citizens basic civil rights.

Comparing the Klan to civil rights organizations doesn't reflect well on the person engaging in such terrible analogies. Maybe next you can compare Al Qaeda to the NAACP.

You need to read up on the Black Panthers. Violence and denying people their rights was their 9to5.
The Klan is irrelevant in the current year. Most POC's probably would not list it in their top 100 daily concerns, It it would probably fall somewhere between Shark Attack and being abducted by aliens.


I'm familiar with the history of the Black Panthers, care to cite some examples of the violence you allege?

The Klan is relevant when discussing American history no matter what pretzel logic you rely on to pretend otherwise and no matter how many attempts you make to speak for communities you not a part of.

https://www.history.com/topics/civil-ri ... #section_3
Heres a link to some Black Panther violence. But really how relevant is the Klan today? You hear people invoke the Klan and yes they are very bad people but what do they do? They are more important to the left as a boogyman organization than to anyone else.


Are you really trying to pretend that the Klan aren't relevant in an era when alt-right and white supremacist terrorists are the biggest security threat America faces? Just because nowadays they're more likely to call themselves militias than Knights doesn't change who they are.

Compared to violence from white supremacists the violence associated with the Black Panthers is pretty small scale but I suppose mentioning it works as a diversionary tactic to people who buy into the notion of scary black men, speaking of boogeymen. You also didn't provide any evidence of them engaging in the sorts of denial of civil rights the Klan and other white supremacists were known for - because they didn't, because they're not actually analogous to the Klan in their actions or in their connections to the local power structure through-out the country.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
You know that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real either don't you?
The Klan (a Democrat organization) is a thing of the past. The so-called "White National Supremacists" are not real. This is the Left and the MSM creating the Boogyman to scare you into hating everyone that didn't vote for the DNC.
You need to get out of the house and talk to some real people. A diverse group of people; Left, Right, Red, Yellow, Black and White. I think you'll be suprised.


White nationalists aren't real??? Heather Heyer should be happy to know she can come back to life after being murdered by a non-existent white nationalist!


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funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2021, 5:57 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
You know that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real either don't you?
The Klan (a Democrat organization) is a thing of the past. The so-called "White National Supremacists" are not real. This is the Left and the MSM creating the Boogyman to scare you into hating everyone that didn't vote for the DNC.
You need to get out of the house and talk to some real people. A diverse group of people; Left, Right, Red, Yellow, Black and White. I think you'll be suprised.


Gaslighting people about the thread posed by white nationalists doesn't address the problem. I get it, you don't consider them a threat because you agree with them, otherwise you wouldn't constantly defend them.

That doesn't mean everyone else has the privilege of not having to worry about the threat of violence from those types. You have no argument when you have to resort to dismissing people who are aware of things you don't pay attention to as being brainwashed. I'm not sure if you actually believe the nonsense you post here but if you do you're too uninformed for your opinion to carry any weight.

Denying reality doesn't alter it so forgive me if I don't join you in pretending that the alt-right isn't a threat to the American people and their basic liberties.


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


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26 Jul 2021, 6:39 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
You know that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real either don't you?
The Klan (a Democrat organization) is a thing of the past. The so-called "White National Supremacists" are not real. This is the Left and the MSM creating the Boogyman to scare you into hating everyone that didn't vote for the DNC.
You need to get out of the house and talk to some real people. A diverse group of people; Left, Right, Red, Yellow, Black and White. I think you'll be suprised.


Gaslighting people about the thread posed by white nationalists doesn't address the problem. I get it, you don't consider them a threat because you agree with them, otherwise you wouldn't constantly defend them.

That doesn't mean everyone else has the privilege of not having to worry about the threat of violence from those types. You have no argument when you have to resort to dismissing people who are aware of things you don't pay attention to as being brainwashed. I'm not sure if you actually believe the nonsense you post here but if you do you're too uninformed for your opinion to carry any weight.

Denying reality doesn't alter it so forgive me if I don't join you in pretending that the alt-right isn't a threat to the American people and their basic liberties.

So you've read my mind and found me to be a white nationalist and very privileged.
Wow, who'd known.
Can you name one person in power who is a white nationalists? Or maybe someone in government who is?
The gas lighting you speak of is being done by the MSM.



funeralxempire
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26 Jul 2021, 7:26 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I can't believe I'm having this conversation.
You know that Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real either don't you?
The Klan (a Democrat organization) is a thing of the past. The so-called "White National Supremacists" are not real. This is the Left and the MSM creating the Boogyman to scare you into hating everyone that didn't vote for the DNC.
You need to get out of the house and talk to some real people. A diverse group of people; Left, Right, Red, Yellow, Black and White. I think you'll be suprised.


Gaslighting people about the thread posed by white nationalists doesn't address the problem. I get it, you don't consider them a threat because you agree with them, otherwise you wouldn't constantly defend them.

That doesn't mean everyone else has the privilege of not having to worry about the threat of violence from those types. You have no argument when you have to resort to dismissing people who are aware of things you don't pay attention to as being brainwashed. I'm not sure if you actually believe the nonsense you post here but if you do you're too uninformed for your opinion to carry any weight.

Denying reality doesn't alter it so forgive me if I don't join you in pretending that the alt-right isn't a threat to the American people and their basic liberties.

So you've read my mind and found me to be a white nationalist and very privileged.
Wow, who'd known.
Can you name one person in power who is a white nationalists? Or maybe someone in government who is?
The gas lighting you speak of is being done by the MSM.


You clearly have the privilege of not having to worry about white nationalism, why try to deny that?
You're consistent in defending white nationalists, I don't know if you identify as one but how would describe someone who's consistently acts as an apologist for those movements?

Marjorie Taylor Green openly peddles WN talking points in Congress, for a single example.

Tucker Carlson spreads WN talking points on a nightly basis.

And those are two lowest hanging fruit as far as examples go but I'm sure you'll try to deny reality yet again.


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う