How revenge truly works

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I'm to drink right now to really respond with any articulation but this is what dating is about. You meet up and see if you match in any way, shape or form. Rejection is just part of dating and being realistic, most men, even NT's get rejected. No man matches with 95% of women regardless of who they are, even the hunks scare off the more timid women though do have an easier time with dating overall obviously.

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago where a woman said I gave her "dead butterflies" after the 4th or 5th date and despite thinking it was an utterly crass and obnoxious term (it's not like she was a Juliet herself) I just assumed it was a slip up of words and she ended the convo thanking me for the time we had....despite blocking me immediately after. Yeah I know, weird. Even after that I still didn't send her snide text back as revenge and left it at that. She just didn't like me and instead I started a thread here about it where I actually got some useful advice which has lead to several better dates with two women. Looking back I just didn't act like I had a dick when on dates and it put women off as they thought I wasn't into them more than just friends. A few kisses later and the women returned the favour with many more back over the last couple of weeks.

Perhaps you might be doing something that is putting them off? I thought dates were going really well and many times had second dates with a lot of NT women, some of who were actually very hot (God knows how I managed to get them on a first date, yet alone a second) but they still ended badly in the end because I wrongly assuming they were going great. I just ended up friend zoned by them. I'm not on bad terms with them and speak to many today but at 30 I still want to start a family and get in some women's pants obviously........otherwise I can't have a family.

Instead of wanting to get revenge on them just ask them calmly what put them off? It's 100 times more helpful than getting revenge. They'll give you an honest answer if you're not being a jerk about it and you can try and improve on it.

Did you mean to say

a) Most men get rejected by at least 95% of women. That is, they attract less than 5% of women

b) Most men attract less than 95% of women. That is, they get rejected by at least 5% of women

If it is "a", then I feel a lot better. But if it is "b", then no. Because you see, my issue is that vast majority of women reject me. So if other men get 80% of women attracted to them, then I am doing a lot worse than they do.



That was really stupid of you that you didn't ask her why and challenged your decision. I would.



Or maybe she assumed something about you thats not true. You would never know unless you ask. Maybe it would have turned out to be something ridiculous, in which case it is even more ridiculous that you didn't challenge it.



You mean, two women from this site or elsewhere?



So are you saying that women expected you to talk dirty, but didn't want to come out and say this so they replaced it with some other things? Why would "Not talking dirty" give her "black butterflies" though? It makes no sense.

And what about my situation. Do you think while I am sitting here puzzling about various social skills I don't have, it is really something as simple as me not talking sex?



This would be one example when I feel it is unfair. How do women know you wouldn't have done better if they were to tell you what it was that bothered them? So I feel like you deserve a second chance. That is one of the situations that would definitely make me angry and want revenge.



And I did. And oftentimes the answer was either something that is simply not true (as in they read me incorrectly) or something I can easily change (which means that I deserve a second chance to change it). So then I would try to argue one or both of these points in order to get said second chance, and if it doesn't work that is when I want a revenge.

Here are some examples:

1) Back in 2005 there was a woman who thought I would want her to treat me like a child because my mom does. She didn't get a point that I resent the fact that my mom treats me like a child.

2) In 2016, there was a woman who thought I can't feel love because Sheldon couldn't. And I couldn't get her to see that different aspies are different, plus Big Bang show is supposed to be a big joke anyway.

3) A year ago, there was a woman who thought I wasn't interested in her, I told her "I was interested in you, I just had such and such trouble" so she picked up the word "was" and asked if it means I am not interested now, so I said "yes I like you now" (I used the word like accidentally but she took it as if I said like as friends).

4) There was a woman, in 2014, who thought I was cheating on her with the granddaughter of my mom's landlord even though I knew her for over a decade and only see her once in a few years and this particular time I wasn't going to see her anyway. And that same girl also thought I was cheating on her when skype connection wasn't working.

The list of examples is MUCH longer. These are just the random few I decided to write. But each and every one of them is super frustrating cause I am trying to correct the misunderstanding and the woman just won't listen. Those are the types of situations that make me angry and want me to fantasize of revenge.

I don't think you are understanding that a person has a right to reject a person romantically for any reason regardless of how ridiculous you or anyone else thinks it is. People have free will, you don't get to decide for someone if they give you chance in the first place let alone a second chance.

And it is not a reason to seek revenge on people, do you really think that is going to help your chances of getting along with people? If anything that will make people more likely to tell their friends and acquaintances about their negative experience with you.

↑ This, Quoted For Truth (ironic choice of words, huh?)

No one is obligated to give anyone else a chance when it come to romantic relationships.  No one is obligated to go out on a first date with someone they do not like.  People are given no free chances in life.  People have to work on self-improvement and making themselves attractive to others.  Then, and only then, will people be inclined to give others a chance at romance.

@QFT: Up your game, dude.  Ditch the attitude of 'entitlement' and become the kind of friend you want to attract -- at least half of those you attract will be women.

Here are the questions regarding what you just said:

1) This is the one I been puzzled for a very long time, and this is actually what drives my "entitlement" attitude. The question is: do I have a free will or no? When you told me to "up my game", you implied I have a free will, which is what I would like to think too (it would be horrible to be stuck in my situation without being able to do anything about it). But you see, when women reject me without giving me the chance to change, they act as if I don't have a free will: they assume I will always be this way no matter what I say. So which way is it? If I do have a free will, why don't they just give me a second chance? If I don't have a free will, then what is the point of "uping my game" as you put it if presumably thats something I can't do (as evident by women's behavior around me)? Thats why I take rejections so hard: every time a woman rejects me without giving me a second chance, she is telling me that I don't have a free will, which is a horrible thing to ever agree with.

2) In the above quote you strictly talk about friends. Don't get me wrong: I do want female friends (in fact I made one of my posts devoted to just that). But I also want a girifriend, too. So how come you gave me advice only about female friends and not about the girlfriend? Are you assuming that once I have female friends one of them will become my girlfriend? Or are you just assuming I probably can't get a girlfriend so you are just giving me advice regarding the friends topic?

3) The "at least half of them will be women" comment is pretty interesting. One thing I noticed is that women seem to avoid me more than men do. Not that I have male friends either. I am only talking about a man being more likely to say hi when they pass me by than a woman would. So are you saying that women might be even colder than men to someone they are "not" friends with, but that doesn't mean that they have higher standards on whom they "become" friends with? So once I do have friends, then at least half of them would be women. But among people that aren't my friends, women would be acting colder to me than men? Is that what you are saying?

I mean should they give you a second chance? The whole premise of this thread is how you'd like to get a second chance just so you can reject them out of spite. Perhaps, it is better for these women they did not give a second chance, as it doesn't really sound like you'd be willing to actually try to do better.

Its like you want a girlfriend but can't be bothered to care about how she actually feels and think they should just stick with you no matter how you treat them. Either that or more like you just want someone to argue with, rather than someone to be romantic with.

Genuine question, if you rejected a woman but then later decided to give her a second chance, and she rudely rejected you out of petty "revenge" just so she can feel like she "won" something, would you not completely avoid her from then on and then tell all of your friends about how much of a smug as*hole she was acting like?

I didn't say thats always the case. I said I had this dream regarding some select girls. But then there are other girls with whom I genuinely DO want a second chance.

The whole reason why I want to reject second chance out of spite on the first place is because I am frustrated I am not given a second chance when I genuinely want it.

But in any case, there are a lot more girls with whom I genuinely want the second chance rather than the ones whom I want to reject it out of spite. I just happened to focus on the latter category in the OP of this particular post. But in other posts I focus on the other ones.



I would. In fact it is often the case that I believe I made a wrong impression due to messing up certain very specific things. And I wish to get a second chance so that I don't mess them up this time.



I do care how she actually feels:

1) My second girlfriend, whom I dated in 2007--2009, was seriously sick in Spring 2008 to the point that she couldn't walk. I was taking care of her and this drew us much closer. Then, in the summer of 2008, when she was no longer as sick, she became demnding, to the point that I was regretting the fact that I met her. However, I didn't break up with her. She did, a year later (in 2009). The reason I didn't break up with her is that I was remembering her being sick and I didn't want to hurt her. So this shows that I did care about her in this situation. Unfortunately, I can't bring a lot more examples of this besides that one. But this might be simply due to the fact that I am socially isolated. I mean, back in 2007, my dating her was all about me -- just like with any other girl. But then once she became sick, it changed. Now, when she simply told me over the phone she got sick, I was still very much self focused. But once I came over and saw it, then I started to care about her. So my appearing not to care about other people might be the consequence of the fact that they didn't let me into their lifes the way she did. Like what would have happened if she were to get mad that I didn't respond appropriately and didn't invite me in? Well, I would still be talking of how I am allegidly the victim of her rejection. But since she DID invite me in and I SAW how much she was hurting, thats why I saw her as a victim -- even after she broke up with me a year later. So it is a feedback loop: me being selfish causes others not to open up to me which in turn causes me to continue to be selfish.

2) If I take completely selfish perspective, then I still care what the woman feels. In particular, the overarching "selfish" reason as to why I want to be in a relationship is self-validation. But if the woman doesn't actually like me and only with me because I begged her to be, then this won't be very validating. Perhaps that is the reason why sometimes I want to shun her myself if/when my begging is successful. But then again, "sometimes" is not always. In the majority situations when I beg I do wish for the second chance to work out (it is just that this didn't happen to be the topic of this thread). Why would I want it? Well, maybe I am hoping that once I do get a second chance and she gets to interact with me more, she will see a different side of me and change her mind to liking me. I admit that largely it is me grasping at the straws. But grasping at the straws doesn't mean I don't care how she feels (I do); it just means I am desperate.



I want someone to be romantic with. In fact when I see other people connecting with each other on emotional level (even two female friends being on the same boat about their stressful homework assignment) I feel like I totally miss that connection and I wish I was in their shoes.

Now, its true that I argue a lot. But no I don't "enjoy" arguing. Rather, various things women say or do makes me feel hurt and so I argue to defend myself. By definition, nobody likes feeling hurt. Thus, it is not an enjoyable experience. But letting it go is not enjoyable experience either. I wish those things didn't come up on the first place. But when they do, I want to argue about them.

As far as what I actually want, I want someone to be romantic with. But then when unexpected things happen along the way, it ends up turning into the argument.

Incidentally something similar happened, many times. Not with rejection as such but rather with my saying something hurtful and then taking it back. In those situations women won't let me take it back and continue to hold it against me. So isn't it very similar to my daydream when a woman takes her rejection back and I won't let her take it back?

And no, I did not completely avoid these women. On the contrary I kept begging and begging them to give me that chance, and they wouldn't. And no, I didn't "tell all my friends" about it either, because I don't have friends on the first place.

So maybe that is part of it: due to my being so isolated and desperate, I internalized certain behaviors that are totally allien to other people. And on the contrary I am unaware of certain "other" things they do that I never get to do, such as "telling all their friends". And that is also why things seem unfair. If I never htought of "telling all the friends" as even an option and then I face it, then of course I would think it is unfair and get mad. But if for others, such as yourself, it is the normal thing to happen, then you wouldn't really be able to relate to my frustration.