Can atheism produce a viable and flourishing society

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it's long been the dream of a friend of mine to sue the German government into providing tax-documents etc. in simple German - like Wikipedia in simple English.
His idea is that any attempt at explaining all the nooks and crannies of German tax law in plain language would be more difficult than throwing the whole system out and replacing it with one that actually already starts out in simple and plain language.

but the language towards mentally impaired people actually has already massively improved - I remember my biology teacher in high school still speaking of certain gene defects leading to imbecility or idiocy - terms no longer used for the mentally impaired but purely to describe incidental mental underperformance, and not general impairment.

There's an actual issue there as the terms inevitably seep out into the non-medical or non-academic world and lose their specific meaning or become generic pejoratives through casual use, causing a new set of terms to be developed, and then the cycle repeats. "ret*d" is the arch example, it originally came into use to replace outmoded words like imbecile or idiot, but became co-opted as an insult, and has now been replaced and is often treated as a slur, despite having had a specific medical meaning at one point. You'll even see the phenomenon at work in political euphemisms, black neighborhoods being described as urban, and then vibrant, for example, where now it's not common to see those terms used pejoratively in various corners of the internet.

I agree, generally speaking. It wasn't just the one thing with Shives -- he was leaning into that ideology in general. Other athiest YouTubers who had collaborated with him in the past also commented on his shift.

Though I do disagree with the conclusion he reached, it was more about how he got there. The show was "5 Stupid Things," not "5 Stupid People." Prior to the change, the idea was more in line with what you said, "Everybody talks rubbish" -- there are at least 5 stupid things about everyone and everything. Shives did "5 Stupid Things" episodes about atheism, himself and the "5 Stupid Things" show. That seemed pretty even-handed to me.

Furthermore, Shives ended every episode of his apologist critique show with: "Agree, disagree, tell me what I got right, tell me what I got wrong" -- inviting anyone to post an opinion. I respected that. That's what I felt like went out the window with the idea that questioning his friends' opinion was inappropriate.



Reading this post, I feel like you put thought into it. There's a huge difference between that and the authority-based religious-type thinking that Shives used to arrive at his.

The word in question, by itself, is just an antonym for "smart." And if we can't have an antonym for smart, that seems double plus ungood to me.

The less religious countries in the world have the safest and healthiest populations by statistics.

Newb economical states think it's necessary to have belief in God in order to be moral





High payment countries believe you dont need belief in God to be moral


Higher education linked to belief God is not necessary


Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/07/20/the-global-god-divide/

Now that thats cleared up, atheists are also more knowledgeable about religion.

Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious?t=1628947905847

Yes, I always thought that it was important to give religion a fair hearing before deciding what to do with it.

Only once has a society put atheism at the front of society.

Albania, between 1967-1990, under the communist rule of Enver Hoxha, completely banned religion in accordance with a very rigid form of communism. This was, to date, the only officially atheist state (as opposed to a secular one). Human rights violations were very frequent (2/3 of Albanians were interrogated by the secret police), and the religion ban was part of an attempt to copy Mao's Cultural Revolution in China.

That said, I certainly welcome atheists (as well as people of faith) to play a role in advancing a secular, democratic society.

Redd_Kross is one of the least offensive progressives I have met.

Yes, I am a black belt in "The Back-handed Compliment".

I'm a Christian, but I believe in the separation from church and state. Simply put, being atheist doesn't make you a bad person, (even though I have had some bad run ins with bad atheist), but to say that "would we be better" isn't a way to look at it. People have done bad things regardless of beliefs, but good people have done good things while having or not having beliefs.

I will say some things:

1.No, not all wars were fought over religion, in fact a lot of them weren't and the ones that were had political, economic, and territorial motives.

2.Not all atheist people are bad, but people who think they can excuse their bad behavior due to nihilism are bad.

Religion has a place, but it depends on a person's priorities.

E.G.
Is social/personal-harmony/groupthink more important than the Truth?
Since I am "The Oracle of Truth", I embrace the latter.

It is a hard road to tread, but I am a tough skunk.

People in those countries aren't true atheists, just the leaders imposing.
Society was unaware about the atheism they were gonna be forced into.
I think if the society wills for such an act instead of majorly elected very religious leaders, results will be much different.
Theocracy can be very detrimental to society as can communism.
But nowadays people lose their jobs for being atheists, being an atheist leader of a country doesnt sound like itll happen anytime soon. Society isn't ready to grow to that point, there is still major discrimination and unfounded mistrust and propaganda against us.

Things aren't quite that bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... cs_and_law

When people say atheism is the belief in "nothing" that is inaccurate. There was always something. I don't associate myself with the belief of nothing as I imagine most atheists don't either. There's not nothing out there. There was always something, such as perhaps matter, whether it was compressed or not, the start of the big bang.

The lack of something, gives you something else. It's a trade, perhaps sort of like the alchemy laws, in order to trade or create something, you need to add something first. You can't use nothing to create. You don't believe in nothing through your rejection of some belief, you don't lack belief. It is not absence of belief, it is the presence of a different belief in a variety of them. Your personal affiliation to a certain belief doesn't constitute "the" belief, singularity, or truth. There are many beliefs, and because someone doesn't abide by yours, they are not absent. They are present, much like you are. You can choose to believe they are absent, but that's like the world spins around you and you are the only truth, which tends to happen, people think their religion is the right one, whether they are Islamists, Catholics, Adventists, Buddhists, etc. And there is no life and belief beyond their "true" religion. Could it be everyone is wrong?

Last edited by Rexi on 19 Aug 2021, 2:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.