Opposition to the Vaccines makes me sad

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chris1989
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09 Aug 2021, 9:17 am

I just wish that everybody was all in it together to get vaccinated to keep us all safe and yet there is still hesitancy and opposition to it. It just makes me want to put my face in my hands and leaves me worrying that will be in this forever if we continue to be like this.



kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2021, 9:18 am

100% agree.

This crap didn't happen with Polio! And we got rid of it (at least in places where the vaccine was widely available).



IsabellaLinton
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09 Aug 2021, 9:28 am

Opposition to closing borders, wearing face masks and social distancing, in other countries, makes me sad.

Where I am we're very proactive about all of it, and still on lockdown too.


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Juliette
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09 Aug 2021, 9:31 am

Agree completely … but some people cannot seem to let go of conspiracy theories and/or anxiety … some who refused the jab, as we’ve seen, have posted videos to YouTube not long before passing, appealing to people to not do as they’ve done, as they now realise their poor judgement …

Others aren’t sad for those who aren’t taking up the vaccine, they’re just plain angry with them … keeping in mind that only half of America is now vaccinated. That’s an awful lot who remain unvaccinated!

August 5th, 2021

(CNN)Many vaccinated people are angry at those who aren't. If you've had your Covid shots, you may agree with Gov. Kay Ivey of Alabama, who said recently: "Folks supposed to have common sense, but it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.”

And it's not just the masses who are letting us down but people close to us: our coworkers, friends, family members. You may be furious at what you see as the selfishness and ignorance and lack of civic responsibility in the people in your life who refuse to get the jab.

And you're not alone -- social media is rife with posts that attempt to convince people to get vaccinated by explaining how wrongheaded they are. It's human nature. You might be doing the same kind of browbeating yourself.
But here's a question: How's that strategy working for you? After you lay into the anti-vaxxers and the vaccine-hesitant, are they thanking you for setting them straight and rushing to make appointments?
Our guess is, that's not what's happening.

… Like Gov. Ivey, we also feel the urge to convince them to change by giving them the facts, arguing with them and criticizing and shaming them for their selfish disregard for others.
The truth is, we care deeply about the issue. And we also care deeply about our relationships. When the two collide, it feels like we have to choose. Do I risk getting a breakthrough infection by spending time in a confined space with my unvaccinated family member, or do I risk the relationship by refusing to be in her presence, or demand that she wear a mask, or try to convince her to do the right thing?

The power of empathy


How do we balance risk and relationship?
We'd like to share a process that reduces risk through relationship. While it isn't guaranteed to get the unvaccinated people in your life to drop everything and make an appointment for the shot, we think it will significantly increase your odds of success.

Our approach hinges on your willingness to give up control; to acknowledge that the person you're trying to change has autonomy and will make their own decision. Of course, what you're giving up isn't control; it's the illusion of control. The person you're talking to is always free to get vaccinated -- or not. You don't get to choose for them. That's why you're trying so hard to convince them.

So when we can't persuade with facts or criticism, what can we lead with instead?

Two things: empathy and curiosity.


When we demonstrate empathy, we show the other person that we believe they have valid needs and concerns. Even if we disagree with their position, we acknowledge that it makes sense to them.
How do you show empathy to someone who doesn't want to get the vaccine? Let's make this real: Think about someone you want to convince. First, be OK with your own feelings. Are you furious at them? Disappointed? Terrified? Do you look down upon them?
Feel those feelings, own them, and don't beat yourself up for having them. Instead, have empathy for yourself. Your motivations are good. You want to reduce suffering, save lives and allow people to congregate freely again without fear of infection. You care deeply, and because of that you feel strongly about the topic.

Read more …
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/opinions/how-to-move-people-from-hesitant-to-vaccinated-bregman-jacobson/index.html



envirozentinel
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09 Aug 2021, 9:37 am

@Juliette: a very well considered and kind post. If only more people on this earth thought like that, the world would be a better place. And anxiety is human nature when faced with anything new and not previously experienced.

I registered well nigh a month ago but haven't received my code yet so I can go and get it. I hear they accept walk-ins at some centres.

I don't have a problem with the vaccine as such, but not sure I need it as I had Covid in early November so the antibodies in my immune system are such that I cannot get reinfected. If I never had Covid I would be more insistent on getting the jab. But I need to get the jab for the sake of other unvaccinated people to whom I could unwittingly transmit the virus to, since many people in my friend and family circle are against the vaccine.


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09 Aug 2021, 9:50 am

I nearly had a meltdown in church this week.  At an open policy meeting, real people were actually saying that Christians should not judge others who refuse to get vaccinated against covid and then refuse to let them worship with the rest of us despite the contamination they may bring in to the church.  I tried to convince them to tighten their standards for the sake of safety, health and life; but they would only smile, talk down to me, and tell me that they do not want to violate anyone's rights.

Let me see if I got this straight ... we violate the rights of gun-owners by telling them to not bring guns into the church because "someone might get hurt", but we cannot tell people to not bring their unvaccinated selves into church because it might violated their rights, even though "someone might get hurt".

I knew that double standards were rampant in the Christian church; but this goes far beyond stupid!


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chris1989
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09 Aug 2021, 9:57 am

It angers and appals me that even recently some stupid conspiracy theorists were comparing our NHS workers to Nazi doctors.



Last edited by chris1989 on 09 Aug 2021, 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2021, 9:59 am

The CDC and the WHO both agree that people who had COVID should get the vaccine.

I had COVID in March of 2020, and got my last shot on 4/6/2021.

I feel like I'm at least DOUBLY protected because I got the shots and I had COVID.



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09 Aug 2021, 10:11 am

I don't care about anti or pro vaccination or some rhetoric.
And I hate more fear mongers in persuasion.

I care more about any possible alternatives on how to actually eradicate diseases that needed vaccinations in the first place -- the idea of humans independent of vaccinations.

Or at least, less dependent of it.


But is there, realistically speaking?

There are no ideas so far as I searched, only one conclusion:
The human race are dependent on vaccines.

And there are no accounts otherwise...
Save for the era when the average lifespan is 30, seniors are in 40s or 50s, child mortality was inane, and said diseases killed countless by being a visiting carrier across the seas or by being dumb careless.


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nick007
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10 Aug 2021, 1:39 am

Fnord wrote:
I nearly had a meltdown in church this week. At an open policy meeting, real people were actually saying that Christians should not judge others who refuse to get vaccinated against covid and then refuse to let them worship with the rest of us despite the contamination they may bring in to the church. I tried to convince them to tighten their standards for the sake of safety, health and life; but they would only smile, talk down to me, and tell me that they do not want to violate anyone's rights.

Let me see if I got this straight ... we violate the rights of gun-owners by telling them to not bring guns into the church because "someone might get hurt", but we cannot tell people to not bring their unvaccinated selves into church because it might violated their rights, even though "someone might get hurt".

I knew that double standards were rampant in the Christian church; but this goes far beyond stupid!
The one thing I'm shocked by is that the Christians actually tell gun owners not to bring their guns into the church. Unless that is a policy they only actively enforce for outsiders to make sure no one with a grudge against the church would bring a gun there.


kraftiekortie wrote:
The CDC and the WHO both agree that people who had COVID should get the vaccine.

I had COVID in March of 2020, and got my last shot on 4/6/2021.

I feel like I'm at least DOUBLY protected because I got the shots and I had COVID.
If people who've already had Covid need to get vaccinated, How would getting vaccinated help them :?: We are supposed to develop antibodies from catching the virus & if we do not develop those needed antibodies from actually catching the real thing, How will our bodies be able to develop them from the vaccine :?:


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cbd
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10 Aug 2021, 6:36 am

sorry guys i disagree .

its certainly splits opinion in regards with the vaccine .

just because you are in favour of being vaccinated . doesn't mean everybody should have the same viewpoint .

i'm adverse to vaccination .. based on the fact that it hasn't been field tested for long enough , and even still .. people are still getting covid who are vaccinated . so really in some cases .. the vacciine isn't as effective as you believe .

there are opinions that getting a virus and getting over (building anti bodies) it is better than vaccination because for some people adverse effects take place , doing damage that may be either irreversable , or needless (for example if you follow social distancing and have limited contact) .

it's people own choice which route they take .



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10 Aug 2021, 8:35 am

cbd wrote:
i'm adverse to vaccination ... based on the fact that it hasn't been field tested for long enough ...

Over 3-billion people have received the vaccine in the last year.  How many more people, and how much more time do you need to be convinced?

Then there is also the fact that those who wind up on ventilators are begging for the vaccine, but for them it is often too late -- their last spoken words to their loved ones are usually "Get Vaccinated".

Remember, it is the unvaccinated -- people just like you -- who are to blame for the spread of the coronavirus, not the rest of us.

But being a spreader is your choice, right?  Just like all those smokers who choose death by cancer and COPD.


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10 Aug 2021, 8:44 am

envirozentinel wrote:
@Juliette: a very well considered and kind post. If only more people on this earth thought like that, the world would be a better place. And anxiety is human nature when faced with anything new and not previously experienced.

I registered well nigh a month ago but haven't received my code yet so I can go and get it. I hear they accept walk-ins at some centres.

I don't have a problem with the vaccine as such, but not sure I need it as I had Covid in early November so the antibodies in my immune system are such that I cannot get reinfected. If I never had Covid I would be more insistent on getting the jab. But I need to get the jab for the sake of other unvaccinated people to whom I could unwittingly transmit the virus to, since many people in my friend and family circle are against the vaccine.


If you have had Covid, the vaccination gives you an absolutely superb immune response, loads of antibodies memory B and memory T cells, possibly even stronger than just the vaccination alone.

Plus, it may be possible that current variants of concern have some fitness from evolution having given them some ability to evade antibodies from infection, but the joint efforts of the T cells and antibodies from the approved vaccines remain effective against the variants, while those from just infection seem less so.



kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2021, 8:47 am

Nick: Getting vaccinated provides enhanced protection, it supplements the antibodies produced in people by COVID infection. It might be like 1 plus 1 equals 3.

Moreover, it would be theoretically possible that, after getting COVID 1.5 years ago (like I did), that the antibodies produced by my COVID would not have as much of an effect as if I had COVID, say, four months ago.

Speaking of which: maybe I should get an antibodies test.....I got one in May, 2020, and it turned out positive.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 10 Aug 2021, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

VegetableMan
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10 Aug 2021, 8:55 am

My friend who has an autoimmune disorder had an antibodies test. It showed she had none, despite recieving the vaccine.


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Fnord
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10 Aug 2021, 9:08 am

VegetableMan wrote:
My friend who has an autoimmune disorder had an antibodies test. It showed she had none, despite receiving the vaccine.
That does not mean the vaccines are ineffective for everybody; it only means that her autoimmune disorder blocks the effectiveness of the vaccine.


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