Ways in which NTs lack social graces??

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Yeah, a bit of an odd question...but I'm sure we can think of a few cases of this!!
Where NTs were lacking in social graces / adhering to social protocol.
And I don't just mean where it was a "hierarchical thing", i.e. they were flippant or deliberately rude with you in some way, b/c they viscerally regarded you and your kind as "less than", but rather in a situation where it was more called for to conduct themselves in a certain way and they didn't.

Case in point: years ago, I was facilitating a meeting to discuss some software requirements and part of a technical solution - I was very good at masking and at the technical acumen I dealt with, so I didn't sense any personal hostility against me - but what these two guys in the meeting did was, to me, socially unforgivable. We all got caught up in a discussion about the "best" way to address the solution constraints and requirements at hand, with a whiteboarding session as well, and these two guys were more vocal than the rest (not in an overly abusive way, but somewhat on the aggressive side).
So, because we'd been in this meeting for about 1.5 hours, I said "OK, well it seems that we could all use a moment to decompress and refresh our brains, so let's have a break for 15 minutes and come back to this" - taking a page from my facilitator's guide. But while some of us petered out of the room, feeling relieved, these two guys started arguing in front of the board with markers in their hands, drawing this line and that; 2-3 other people stood around them while the other half of us (including me) walked out. I was just glad it wasn't *everyone* congregating around them, or I would've looked foolish.
So I dropped a hint that "OK, well it would be nice to get some fresh air, then we can come back to this with a fresh perspective" - but these two guys, ostensibly NT, kept their argumentative whiteboarding flowing
...and even when I came back, they were still at it!! !!

They point and laugh at non-NTs knowing full well that laughing at someone is inappropriate and that nobody likes being laughed at. It's despicable behaviour and there is no excuse for it unless one has a lack of intellectual and social understanding and don't know what they're doing. But a 'normal' person knows perfectly well what they're doing and laughing at another person, particularly a stranger, is just ret*d.

OP, can you clarify?

In your example, what do you consider to be the lack of social graces: that they ignored your suggestion for a break and were seemingly socially ungracious toward you, or the fact that they kept arguing with one another instead of decompressing like everyone else (socially ungracious toward each other, possibly the group)?

Things People With Neuro-Typical Personalities Do that Make No Sense To Me.

While these subjective observations do not apply to every neurotypical person, everywhere, or all of the time, they do seem to apply often enough to most neurotypicals that I have to wonder what goes on in their minds.

• Being alone seems to make them feel anxious.

• Being unable to take credit for someone else's success seems to make them feel anxious.

• Nothing is ever seems to be their fault; there is always a mitigating factor or hidden conspiracy involved when they get caught doing something illegal, immoral, or unethical.

• Repetitive, routine activities seem to bore them, yet music with repetitive lyrics seems to excite them.

• The idea that their personal values may not be universal has never occurred to them (until just now).

• The men will wear expensive suits, jewelry and shoes, drive expensive cars, and flash cash to attract women, and then complain that women are interested in them only for their money.

• The question of whether or not they have anything to say seems to have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not anyone wants to hear it.

• The women will undergo surgical enhancements, wear revealing clothing, flirt outrageously, and have their hair and makeup done to look attractive to men, and then complain that men are interested in them only for their bodies.

• Their closets are so full that they rarely have to wear the same item of clothing twice in the same season.

• Their kids wear hand-me-downs so that they can shop at Macy's and Nordstrom.

• Their perception of life seems to be that it is an endless party in their honor, with everyone cheering them on and wanting them to win at everything.

• Their reputation seems to be of utmost importance to them.

• Their sense of self-worth seems to as much on how many people 'like' them as it does on their personal wealth.

• Their speech consists mostly of buzzwords, clichés, and cultural references.

• They abuse and insult you, then insist they were only joking after they have upset you and caused you grief.

• They abuse you and insult you, then call you weak for complaining and insist that you apologize for upsetting them.

• They apologize for other people's hurt feelings, but never for causing them to be hurt.

• They ask for your honest opinion, then demand an apology when your opinions are not to their liking.

• They ask questions that they already know the answers to, just to have something to talk about.

• They buy a expensive things just to show people that they can afford them.

• They buy only brand-name clothes only from brand-name stores, wear those clothes only once, and hold onto them until they come back into fashion (which they never seem to do).

• They cite events from your past to "blame and shame" you into feelings of hopelessness and inferiority, and then tell you that they're doing it for your own good.

• They claim to be helpful, yet their help mainly consists of pointing out the flaws and insecurities of others.

• They deny the truth about themselves, despite all the available evidence to the contrary.

• They gain social superiority through pointing out and exploiting the flaws and insecurities of others.

• They hug all their friends whenever they see them, whether or not those friends want to be hugged.

• They ignore everything you say except for the one thing that they can exaggerate into an ugly argument.

• They inform people of facts that they know they already know, just to have something to talk about.

• They insist on maintaining eye contact with whomever they are talking to.

• They issue ultimatums (i.e., "My way, or else the highway"), and then they are completely taken aback when someone happily chooses the "highway" option.

• They make little or no effort to pronounce other people's names correctly, and instead they take the liberty of assigning a nickname with or without the approval of the recipient.

• They make no major purchase without first considering how their friends will react to it.

• They never seem to realize when they are dominating the conversation, and express indignation when anyone asks them to let other people talk.

• They never seem to realize when they are talking loud, and express indignation when anyone asks them to lower their voices.

• They offer to help, then take personal offense when you demonstrate that their help is either unnecessary or unwanted (or both).

• They practice vice while preaching virtue (e.g., "Do as I say, not as I do").

• They purchase a low-cost house in an ethnic, working-class neighborhood, fix it up, and then wonder where all that ethnic, working-class culture has gone after the locals are forced to move away due to rising property taxes.

• They rarely, if ever, express themselves directly and in a manner that can be easily and unambiguously interpreted by anyone who knows the same language.

• They refer to even the most remote of their acquaintances as a friend.

• They regularly forget other people's special events (i.e., anniversaries, birthdays, et cetera), yet they feel offended when other people forget theirs.

• They say "Yes" when people ask them for help, and then make excuses for not helping.

• They seem to be more concerned with being believed than with being truthful.

• They seem to be more focused on winning an argument than on being right.

• They seem to be so socially adept that they get promoted into positions for which they have no practical knowledge or skills, and no one seems to care.

• They seem to be unable to comprehend why their last-minute requests can not be fulfilled right away, no matter how many times they remind others of who they are, whom they know, and what they do for a living.

• They seem to be unable to handle hearing the truth about themselves, nor can they rightly deny it; so instead they accuse the truth-tellers of bullying and being both rude and insulting.

• They seem to be unable to separate the concept of "Privileges" from the concept of "Rights", and they often conflate the two.

• They seem to believe that anyone who interprets what they say in a literal way is either being a smartass or they're just plain stupid.

• They seem to believe that applying logic and rational thought in everyday conversations is somehow "weird".

• They seem to believe that being popular is more important than being honest.

• They seem to believe that everybody likes them, despite all the available evidence to the contrary.

• They seem to believe that everyone should already understand the merits of their ideas without the need of having to ever explain them.

• They seem to believe that false compliments are more helpful than truthful analysis.

• They seem to believe that fashion is more important than comfort.

• They seem to believe that image and status are more important than ethical behavior.

• They seem to believe that intending to do something should earn the same amount of gratitude and respect as actually doing it.

• They seem to believe that it is only natural that people should be interested in their personal problems, and feel a sense of rejection when they aren't.

• They seem to believe that it is rude of others to ignore them, no matter how busy they are.

• They seem to believe that it is rude of other people to "shush" them merely because they have interrupted the other people's conversations.

• They seem to believe that just one spectacular success from their own past makes them better than anyone else.

• They seem to believe that living in poverty demonstrates a lack of moral character and personal initiative.

• They seem to believe that mere appearance reveals the substance beneath (e.g., They believe that they CAN judge a book by its cover).

• They seem to believe that merely claiming to be good people makes them good people.

• They seem to believe that one person's spectacular failure makes everyone else better by comparison.

• They seem to believe that only certain people have what it takes to fight, crawl, and scrape their way to the top by any means necessary; and that those who don't have talent or potential should accept their role as victims.

• They seem to believe that social awkwardness can be shamed out of a child.

• They seem to believe that someone is less of a person if he or she has a disability.

• They seem to believe that soul-cutting criticism is "constructive".

• They seem to believe that telling someone to calm down will cure their anxiety.

• They seem to believe that telling someone to cheer up will cure their depression.

• They seem to believe that telling someone to get a job will "cure" their unemployment.

• They seem to believe that the majority is always right.

• They seem to believe that their own tardiness is irrelevant, while also believing that other people's tardiness shows disrespect, incompetence, or both.

• They seem to believe that their way is the only way, even when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that their way consistently results in spectacular failures.

• They seem to believe that thinking of what they want to say next is more important than listening to what someone else is saying to them now.

• They seem to believe that when it comes to their own productivity, "almost" is actually "good enough", and "good enough" is actually "perfect".

• They seem to believe that when someone answers "No" to their requests, it really means "Keep on repeating your request until I say 'Yes'".

• They seem to believe that when someone else says "I don't know", it really means "I know the answer, but I don't want to tell you".

• They seem to consider direct speech to be arrogant, insulting, and just plain rude.

• They seem to consider someone who disagrees with them to be a "bully", especially when they cannot intimidate that particular someone into changing his or her mind.

• They seem to expect people in other countries to speak their language whenever they travel abroad.

• They seem to feel certain that those who do not share their personal beliefs are either misled, delusional, or both.

• They seem to feel compelled to do what everyone else is doing regardless of whether or not it makes any sense to do it, or if doing it serves any practical purpose.

• They seem to feel jealousy when someone else is praised or achieves a meaningful goal on their own.

• They seem to feel the constant need to remind others of how popular they are.

• They seem to take for granted that their friends' holiday and weekend plans include them.

• They seem to feel utterly lost if they don't have plans for holidays and weekends that involve at least one other person.

• They seem to feign interest and knowledge in any subject, no matter what the subject may be, as long as doing so will provide them with an economic or social advantage (or both).

• They seem to feign sincerity as well as any politician, preacher or salesman, as long as doing so will provide them with an economic or social advantage (or both).

• They seem to have a tremendous drive to obtain the acceptance and admiration of others around them, including complete strangers.

• They seem to have an innate drive to fit in with groups by modifying their own appearance, behavior, opinions and desires to conform to the group ideal.

• They seem to have difficulty in forming an individual identity, because they see themselves as a member of a group, not as individuals.

• They seem to have difficulty in thinking outside of the bounds of the accepted norms of their cultural or social group.

• They seem to have little or no ability to comprehend the significance of the order in which ideas are presented.

• They seem to have little or no ability to understand the literal content of language.

• They seem to have little or no inclination to learn something new, unless it is something that will provide them with an economic or social advantage (or both).

• They seem to have many hobbies and interests that are based on social or group activities.

• They seem to have no time to wait for an ordinary fifty-cent cup of coffee, but will wait in line for thirty minutes for a five-dollar "quad venti non-fat no-whip soy latte".

• They seem to have raised "Fishing for Compliments" to an art form.

• They seem to hide their true communicative intent beneath layers of often contradictory statements.

• They seem to instinctively understand exactly what to say to make someone feel good (or bad) about themselves.

• They seem to judge first, and then ask questions later.

• They seem to know where every "Starbucks" is within a thirty-mile radius, but seem to have little or no knowledge of how to prepare their own coffee.

• They seem to love hanging out with their friends, even though they aren't doing anything and they don't have any plans to do anything except "hang around".

• They seem to make no distinction between personal wealth and personal worth.

• They seem to make up their minds first, and then back up their decisions with facts later.

• They seem to not possibly care less about the technical details of any device, procedure, or process, as long as it provides the results that they want.

• They seem to perceive no difference between romantic love and sexual desire, and they will often conflate the two meanings in regular conversation.

• They seem to perceive people from outside their social group as inferior, even if the 'outsiders' are highly educated and successful in their own right.

• They seem to purposely upset people with what they say and do, and then claim that they were only joking, and that their victims should not be upset.

• They seem to rarely, if ever, experience a socially awkward moment.

• They seem to react first, then make up reasons why later.

• They seem to see nothing wrong with motivating others through vague threats of lost respect.

• They seem to see nothing wrong with showing up for work two hours late, as long as they put in an eight-hour day.

• They seem to see themselves as the "default" case – that they are the normal people, and everybody else is "different", "foreign", or just plain "wrong".

• They seem to state things implicitly rather than explicitly, and with a level of vagueness that often results in miscommunication.

• They seem to take it as a personal insult when someone refuses a gift from them.

• They seem to take it as a personal insult when someone turns down an invitation from them.

• They seem to unconsciously guide the topic of every conversation back to themselves.

• They seem to want to be appreciated for their intentions, even when their words and actions cause trouble and grief for others.

• They seem to wonder why anyone would not want to be just like them.

• They seem unable to comprehend why anyone would want to literally interpret anything they say.

• They seem unable to fathom why anyone would want be alone for any length of time.

• They seem unable to stand silence and will respond to it by switching on an audio device without any intention of actually listening to its content.

• They show off an expensive car, house, outfit, or piece of jewelry and are shocked when other people are unimpressed.

• They show people that they love them by making up an insulting nick-name for each of them.

• They surround themselves with people who are just like them.

• They talk a lot, but they have very little to say.

• They tell others what they should do, but not how they should do it until after they've finished; and then they tell them how they would have done it better.

• They tell others what they should think, what they should want, and how they should feel.

• They tend to engage in meaningless social activities of mass, unified action just because "everybody else" is doing the exact same thing.

• They use the terms "us" and "we" whenever referring to their favorite sports team, even though they are not part of the team and have never even played the sport.

• They will converse with anyone, anywhere, any time, and on any topic; but only as long as doing so will provide them with an economic or social advantage (or both).

• They will excuse their favorite celebrity of criminal behavior, yet they will also consider the slightest infraction of manners from an unpopular person to be a capital crime.

• When asked a question, they will do practically anything to avoid having to say "I don't know" in response, even when they truly do not know the answer.

• When people ask them how they are doing, they do not even consider the possibility that someone may actually care.

• When they ask others, "How are you doing?", they become confused if the answer is something other than "Fine".

• When they see someone reading a book, wearing headphones, or working hard at some solitary task, they seem to get the sudden urge to have a conversation with that person.

• When trying to understand the meaning of a comment, they immediately dismiss the possibility that the speaker meant exactly what was said and instead look for a hidden meaning.

And finally:

• They seem to be completely oblivious that engaging in these behaviors makes no sense.

While I applaud Fnord on his incredibly exhaustive list, I found that about 20-25% of those traits are more characteristic of Cluster B personality traits, like narcissism, psychopathy, histrionic petsonality, etc. I have NT friends, colleagues and acquaintances whose behaviour doesn't fit that profile at all.

Just look up Karen freakout videos. They are the prefect examples of NTs (though some may fit the criteria for narcissism or sociopathy) who lack social graces.

Yes, most of my observations have occurred in America, and I am an American.  I have also observed these same traits in Africans, Asians, Europeans, and Middle-Easterners (I too have travelled extensively).

Again, these are subjective observations, and while they cover a lot of social real-estate, they are inherently one-sided.  I am interested in your list of observations -- maybe the ones that overlap with mine would be more valid in more instances than the rest.

I don't deal with many people these days, and most of the ones I do deal with seem pretty courteous on the whole. I expect I'd deal with a lot more people if I expected them to have a good grounding in social graces. I'm aware that a lot of people are loud, aggressive, overbearing, competitive, disrespectful, dishonourable, and false. I like to think that Aspies aren't so much that way, but I don't know many. I don't want to demonise NTs here, or people in general (which I guess amounts to much the same thing).

I'm rarely sure if it's them or me that's "in the wrong." I just have my standards and if somebody annoys me I'll probably avoid them if it's convenient for me to do that, or if I think they're trying to annoy me (or others) I might be rude back at them. If I'm going to be stuck with somebody longterm who's rude, I might be assertive - holding my ground and not accepting crap but trying at first to do so by raising my eyebrows rather than the roof.

As for what my standards of graceful behaviour are, here's a list off the top of my head:
Don't be loud or aggressive unless the other person approves (which I generally don't). Don't be invasive, give people a dignified way out of going along with your suggestions. Accept no for an answer. Share fairly rather than hog power, resources, air time. Treat people like equals. Don't interrupt unless the other person bangs on for a long time, and if you must interrupt, do so with some sensitivity. Consider what other people want, and try within reason to deliver it. Be kind but don't mollycoddle or spoil. Try to be helpful. Contradict and give criticism constructively in a gentle, measured way, where it's due. Don't give yourself airs or posture. Be straight with friends. Beyond healthy self-protection, give people a fair chance. If you see somebody who seems left out, try to spare them a bit of attention and warmth. Encourage the honest discussion of feelings. End conversations gently, don't just walk away. Unless dealing with enemies, only compete if it's an agreed game.

OP, can you clarify?

In your example, what do you consider to be the lack of social graces: that they ignored your suggestion for a break and were seemingly socially ungracious toward you, or the fact that they kept arguing with one another instead of decompressing like everyone else (socially ungracious toward each other, possibly the group)?

I asked this early on and it was short and directly connected to your original post. I was asking for clarification. Perhaps if I'd spammed the thread I would have gotten a reply. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but ignoring this seems like a lack of social graces on your part.

No, I don't care if most of what I post on this forum goes without response. In this particular case, however, I was looking for very specif clarification on where you felt social graces were lacking in your example, but you seemingly couldn't be bothered to clarify.