Fed up with doctors surgeries not opening up

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Joe90
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15 Aug 2021, 2:51 pm

Everywhere has opened up now except doctors surgeries. They only allow phonecall appointments or stupid zoom or whatever. It's not good enough. I want to see a doctor in person. I have an infectious mole on my neck that needs looking at properly by a doctor, but I'm reluctant to make an appointment because all they'll do is ask me to send a picture or something. No, I don't want to do it that way. Things are more likely to get misdiagnosed over the phone or by looking at a picture of something. They don't care about people dying of things other than covid. And they're using the fact that they're medical staff as an excuse to not see patients, like "we need to hide away, we're doctors, we have to be completely protected from catching covid or passing it on to patients."
No, sorry, that is no excuse. Staff at hospitals have to come into close contact with people. When I had my covid jab the nurses there got within 6 feet and even let people take their masks off. But the doctors (most well-paid staff on the NHS) are still hiding behind their doors and not opening up. They could easily place seats more than 6 feet apart in waiting-rooms, with dividers, and all the doctors and patients have to do is wear masks and make sure things are disinfected.

I have a feeling doctors surgeries are going to become a thing of the past. Sometimes I hate technology. With the Spanish flu there was no internet or vaccines back then but humankind still existed after and they somehow learnt to live with it (I heard it died out, but it was probably herd immunity).

So the rule is, one death from covid is too many, but the death rate of more deadly things such as cancer is increasing due to people not being seen properly by a doctor is OK. Bit like urging people to stay indoors during a hurricane but not urging people to stay indoors during a tornado. Both can be lethal.


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Noca
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01 Sep 2021, 12:25 am

Photos of moles or rashes have never turned out well for me when I've tried to take a picture of them directly or selfies in a mirror to show doctors in the past. It's one of the failures of telemedicine. I even have specialists who don't even have receptionists on staff anymore, they just have a voice mail that they only answer twice per week. You drop a call in the middle of an appointment and there's no one to call back because they call with a private number lol.

I think the only benefit of telemedicine is for routine refills, so you don't have to go all the way to the office just for something they could do over the phone. Physical examinations shouldn't be done over a video call, stuff like what you are describing needs to be done in person.



badRobot
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01 Sep 2021, 12:55 am

Noca wrote:
Photos of moles or rashes have never turned out well for me when I've tried to take a picture of them directly or selfies in a mirror to show doctors in the past. It's one of the failures of telemedicine. I even have specialists who don't even have receptionists on staff anymore, they just have a voice mail that they only answer twice per week. You drop a call in the middle of an appointment and there's no one to call back because they call with a private number lol.

I think the only benefit of telemedicine is for routine refills, so you don't have to go all the way to the office just for something they could do over the phone. Physical examinations shouldn't be done over a video call, stuff like what you are describing needs to be done in person.


Your doctor should instruct you what app to use to take medical photos. Specialized apps meet legal requirements, integrated with medical records systems and often provide lighting guidelines and camera settings for better color and accuracy. Regular photo apps settings and post-processing optimized for beauty and aesthetically pleasing results, almost the opposite of what is needed to take accurate photos of rashes and stuff, medical photo apps supposed to use raw image data and give the doctor controls to enhance and tweak as needed.



Joe90
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04 Sep 2021, 5:11 am

I just need to see the doctor in person. f**k covid - I'm more likely to die from cancer if I had it and it goes untreated, at least I'm vaccinated for covid and so is nearly everyone I know (except those who choose not to be) and presumably the doctor.


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kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 5:44 am

I agree. In-person examination is essential in many cases. Telemedicine doesn’t work for diagnosing many things.

Have you called NHS 111?

I agree a mole has to be examined in person.



badRobot
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04 Sep 2021, 5:58 am

Joe90 wrote:
I just need to see the doctor in person. f**k covid - I'm more likely to die from cancer if I had it and it goes untreated, at least I'm vaccinated for covid and so is nearly everyone I know (except those who choose not to be) and presumably the doctor.


Modern imaging technology is better than human eye. If I was given a choice between showing some mole to a nearest doctor in person or sending detailed macro photos to someone who would look at my test results and run pictures through analysis software to confirm diagnosis, I would prefer the latter. Talking to doctor in person is overrated, humans are emotional and irrational.



kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 7:21 am

Many conditions still need in-person examination. Nothing to do with emotions.



badRobot
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04 Sep 2021, 7:51 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Many conditions still need in-person examination. Nothing to do with emotions.


Stuff like moles is not one of those conditions. Doctor is less likely to make a mistake looking at a proper picture of a mole, because they study and pass tests looking at hundreds of pictures, not real moles. This fear of being misdiagnosed when you send pictures instead of seeing a doctor in person is completely irrational.



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04 Sep 2021, 7:58 am

The whole idea of having a doctor who knows your whole family very well, remembers your history and can pay a lot of attention to you in person worked well hundred years ago. Now this approach is not scalable and leads to poor quality of healthcare, exhausted people, long queues.

We should embrace telemedicine and push doctors toward using proper tools and modern techniques to improve quality and accuracy, not resist the progress. If you can send pictures and save some of your own time and your doctor's time, just do it.



kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 8:24 am

In order for this to be feasible, the pictures would have to be the same quality as something like MRIs. Or at least 3-dimensional.

A 2-dimensional picture of a mole just won’t do it.

Some people just like contact with other humans. We have to live with that. We have to accept that fact.



Joe90
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04 Sep 2021, 8:38 am

I admit some issues can be addressed over the phone or via email, but some things need to be examined physically. It's not a mole on my neck that's worrying me now, it's a sore lump on my groin and it's in an awkward place to take a picture. I'd rather it be examined closely and even felt. You can't feel a picture. I hate the way everything has to be technical nowadays. I like human interaction, and I'm old school. I only use internet for social media, YouTube, emails and forums. Otherwise, I use my legs and my tongue (please do not take as a double entendre).


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04 Sep 2021, 8:58 am

This is one example of where I would be inclined to defend the "American model" of dealing with the pandemic, if such can be claimed to exist, flawed and chaotic as it may be. People, in particular Canadians, gleefully point out how much "better" their country has done, usually citing total deaths per population as a metric. But I think there are other metrics.

In March, when I needed hernia surgery, there was no question the surgeon wouldn't see and examine me in person, and my PCF before him. Precautions were taken of course. Vaccines, N95 masks, and HEPA filters, but not to the extent of compromising necessary health care. Same thing when I recently needed a difficult root canal.

At some point you have to acknowledge the trade-offs.


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04 Sep 2021, 9:34 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
In order for this to be feasible, the pictures would have to be the same quality as something like MRIs. Or at least 3-dimensional.

A 2-dimensional picture of a mole just won’t do it.


No, this is fallacy. The pictures need to be about the same quality as pictures in textbooks and tests they used in training how to differentiate ordinary, atypical and malignant moles. They can stare at photos as long as they need, there is no awkwardness or pressure, they can zoom in and out, tweak enhancement parameters, they can go back to take another look any time if they have a new idea or want to double check, they can run recognition software and compare pictures, ask opinion of their colleagues any time. None of that is possible when you are limited to like 30 seconds glance at a mole on the body of a patient in person.

kraftiekortie wrote:
Some people just like contact with other humans. We have to live with that. We have to accept that fact.

Yes, this is what I call emotional and irrational.



kraftiekortie
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04 Sep 2021, 1:05 pm

Neanderthals supposedly had the “autism” gene—but their survival depended upon cooperation with others.



badRobot
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04 Sep 2021, 1:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Neanderthals supposedly had the “autism” gene—but their survival depended upon cooperation with others.

Yes, sending a photo of your mole instead of insisting on meeting a doctor in person is a form of cooperation our survival depends on now. Insisting on meeting someone in person out of irrational fear or because you "like contact with other humans" it is the opposite of cooperation.



kraftiekortie
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05 Sep 2021, 3:06 pm

We are a social animal—whether you like it or not.