Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.

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DW_a_mom
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24 Sep 2021, 3:07 am

Dox47 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
It's strange that those with the most animus towards a person\group are the ones who claim to "hear" the dog whistle, isn't it. Strangely, they also tend to have the least understanding of those to whom they claim that the "dog whistle" is aimed, and often resort to the worst stereotype to describe those people, as well.

It's more likely to be those with the animus towards the person\group looking for something to use in order to "justify" this animus\hatred and assigning interpretations which were never present (nor intended) as being a "dog whistle", rather than any "dog whistle" truely being present.


It's almost as if they came to desired conclusion first, and are trying to make post hoc rationalizations afterwards, isn't it? I'll bet most of these people actually think the OK symbol is racist too.


Hm, I didn’t see it until you all said it. I think I (and others) have been making the mistake of using race baiting (which anyone should be able to see) and dog whistle (which only the intended target should be able to see) interchangeably. They are not interchangeable.

I definitely messed up on the "speak precisely" thing. I should have stuck to saying race baiting. I went back and cleaned up my comments to be more precise (I don't want to be seen as dishonest for doing so; I'm admitting I messed up; but you're still shaking your head at me, aren't you???).

But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.

Question: do you consider the following to be fact or fiction:

Conservatives started embracing something called the "southern strategy" in 1970's which intentionally plays on racist fears to increase votes for conservatives?

If you agree it is fact, do you believe Trump was aware of and used this strategy?


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 24 Sep 2021, 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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24 Sep 2021, 3:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
"Dog whistles" are the conspiracy theories of the left, secret communications spoken openly by politicians that only they can hear. Just like less reputable conspiracy theories, they're impossible to disprove, making arguing about them pointless.


I'm pretty sure the KKK still hears the message loud and clear....Trump mentions a wall and their ears prick up
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 09491.html

Who could forget the joyous "hail Trump" from the far right when Trump won in 2016
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38057104

The writing was on the wall....literally and figuratively

Image



Mr Reynholm
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24 Sep 2021, 8:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Is Trump a racist?
I see no evidence of this. .


Whether he is one is irrelevant. What is evident is his use of "race baiting" which nobody disputes.

The Left has perfected race baiting. And yes I dispute the idea that Trump is one.



Mr Reynholm
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24 Sep 2021, 8:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I remember being bodily thrown from the unofficial "Black Only" restroom on my 1st ship in the Navy. Was this racism? Was it just a bunch of jerks? I didn't hold every black person in the world accountable for it. .


You are beginning to remind me of an ex-WP member who used strange obscure examples to support his theories

There's a lot of "unofficial" stuff that happens in the police force, army and in prison. I wouldn't use this as your pivot to make racism some type of illusion on the part of black people.

My point being that "racism" or in group preference is present in all groups. Racism is not peculiar to white people.



Mr Reynholm
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24 Sep 2021, 8:19 am

Brictoria wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
"Dog whistles" are the conspiracy theories of the left, secret communications spoken openly by politicians that only they can hear. Just like less reputable conspiracy theories, they're impossible to disprove, making arguing about them pointless.

It's strange that those with the most animus towards a person\group are the ones who claim to "hear" the dog whistle, isn't it. Strangely, they also tend to have the least understanding of those to whom they claim that the "dog whistle" is aimed, and often resort to the worst stereotype to describe those people, as well.

It's more likely to be those with the animus towards the person\group looking for something to use in order to "justify" this animus\hatred and assigning interpretations which were never present (nor intended) as being a "dog whistle", rather than any "dog whistle" truely being present.

Good point.
Also I take into consideration that the person doing the reporting feels the need to appeal to their own audience. If your audience is far left you wouldn't want to say "The candidate made some innocuous statements about poverty." You would wand to titillate your audience by saying "The candidate unleashed some ominous racial Dog Whistles that could spell danger for the minority community!" Which is going to get the reporter more attention?



Mr Reynholm
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24 Sep 2021, 8:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
"Dog whistles" are the conspiracy theories of the left, secret communications spoken openly by politicians that only they can hear. Just like less reputable conspiracy theories, they're impossible to disprove, making arguing about them pointless.


I'm pretty sure the KKK still hears the message loud and clear....Trump mentions a wall and their ears prick up
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 09491.html

Who could forget the joyous "hail Trump" from the far right when Trump won in 2016
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38057104

The writing was on the wall....literally and figuratively

Image

So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?



Brictoria
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24 Sep 2021, 10:44 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.


Correlation does not imply causation...

Just because one event occurs at\around the same time as another does not indicate a connection.

Perhaps they felt "emboldened" as they knew the media wouldn't be focussed on them, instead being focussed on attacking the new President at every opportunity?

Or, maybe nothing changed with regards to their words\actions, and it was simply a case of the media deciding to focus on them as a way to try and "connect" them to the President in order to suggest a link, where before they had "ignored" them to avoid giving them publicity...



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24 Sep 2021, 3:26 pm

Brictoria wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.


Correlation does not imply causation...

Just because one event occurs at\around the same time as another does not indicate a connection.

Perhaps they felt "emboldened" as they knew the media wouldn't be focussed on them, instead being focussed on attacking the new President at every opportunity?

Or, maybe nothing changed with regards to their words\actions, and it was simply a case of the media deciding to focus on them as a way to try and "connect" them to the President in order to suggest a link, where before they had "ignored" them to avoid giving them publicity...


Or maybe they felt emboldened because Trump made them feel he was one of their own.


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DW_a_mom
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24 Sep 2021, 7:24 pm

Brictoria wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.


Correlation does not imply causation...



I am more than aware of that, and tried to phrase accordingly, but what is a viable alternate explanation, especially knowing just how often those engaging in openly racist displays cited the reality of Trump as president as their reason for believing the rules had changed?


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cyberdad
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24 Sep 2021, 8:07 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?


It may surprise you but the BBC and Al Jezeera and even our own Australian ABC have journalists who have been stationed in the US who have deep knowledge of the politics/culture in America.

Another advantage of foreign news services is that they are not subject to government pressure on their editorial team

This certainly happened during the Covington schoolboy legal case against the Washington post where the then POTUS interfered in two legal cases by supporting Nicholas Sandmann's parent's claims and secondly in the murder trial of Kyle Rittenhouse where again the POTUS threw his support behind the murder accused and against the families of the victims.

Both of these were major conflicts of interest given the legal team supporting Sandmann and Rittenhouse was pro-Trump, Pro-QAnon, Following Sandmann's successful out-of court settlement the events leading up to that particular story has been cancelled from media (as if it never existed) in fear of legal repercussion, These are examples of interference in the operation of the free press in the US.



Dox47
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24 Sep 2021, 9:46 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.


Did it? The alt-right predates the rise of Trump, you could have the cause and effect reversed, with emboldened racists thinking Trump was one of them because he was loud and scornful of norms, and the media running with the story as if Trump caused these people to suddenly appear.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Question: do you consider the following to be fact or fiction:

Conservatives started embracing something called the "southern strategy" in 1970's which intentionally plays on racist fears to increase votes for conservatives?


The Southern Strategy was a real thing, but I think it gets overly simplified as just thinly veiled racism, when a lot of it came from Nixon noticing that George Wallace did really well with Northern whites, what you might call the Archie Bunker types, and figuring out a way to appeal to them without the outright racism of Wallace. It gets mixed up because a lot of conservative principles regarding small government and personal responsibility are naturally opposed to things like welfare or sweeping anti-discrimination laws at the philosophical level, but people always want to read racism into them, when it's often not there. There are also plenty of places where the two do intersect, busing being an arch example, where there were certainly people opposing the policy for racist reasons, but also people opposing it because they didn't want their kids on the bus for 3 hours a day, but they tend to get painted with the same broad brush by progressive activist types.

DW_a_mom wrote:
If you agree it is fact, do you believe Trump was aware of and used this strategy?


I don't think Trump was smart or disciplined enough to deploy much of any strategy, I think he just went where the applause was and accidentally trolled his way into the Oval Office. I think this is like the Kennedy Assassination in a way, people don't want to believe that something so Earth shattering could happen by happenstance, so they need to develop elaborate theories about what happened, a reality show star semi-accidentally discovering a previously overlooked path to the presidency by appealing to an overlooked market in one case, or a loser who wanted to kill someone famous to become famous in the other.


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DW_a_mom
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24 Sep 2021, 11:29 pm

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But my point about the increase in openly racist activity stands. Something made them feel emboldened.


Did it? The alt-right predates the rise of Trump, you could have the cause and effect reversed, with emboldened racists thinking Trump was one of them because he was loud and scornful of norms, and the media running with the story as if Trump caused these people to suddenly appear.


Not impossible.

Dox47 wrote:
... but they tend to get painted with the same broad brush by progressive activist types.


Human nature, regardless of politics, seems to do that. People just don't have the time or energy.

The sad part is how many politicians and pundits knowingly take advantage of the reality.


Quote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
If you agree it is fact, do you believe Trump was aware of and used this strategy?


I don't think Trump was smart or disciplined enough to deploy much of any strategy, I think he just went where the applause was and accidentally trolled his way into the Oval Office. I think this is like the Kennedy Assassination in a way, people don't want to believe that something so Earth shattering could happen by happenstance, so they need to develop elaborate theories about what happened, a reality show star semi-accidentally discovering a previously overlooked path to the presidency by appealing to an overlooked market in one case, or a loser who wanted to kill someone famous to become famous in the other.


I think your general assessment of Trump is probably accurate, although I do think some of his advisors were likely conscious of the strategy and "encouraging" him in that direction.


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Mr Reynholm
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26 Sep 2021, 8:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?


It may surprise you but the BBC and Al Jezeera and even our own Australian ABC have journalists who have been stationed in the US who have deep knowledge of the politics/culture in America.

Another advantage of foreign news services is that they are not subject to government pressure on their editorial team

This certainly happened during the Covington schoolboy legal case against the Washington post where the then POTUS interfered in two legal cases by supporting Nicholas Sandmann's parent's claims and secondly in the murder trial of Kyle Rittenhouse where again the POTUS threw his support behind the murder accused and against the families of the victims.

Both of these were major conflicts of interest given the legal team supporting Sandmann and Rittenhouse was pro-Trump, Pro-QAnon, Following Sandmann's successful out-of court settlement the events leading up to that particular story has been cancelled from media (as if it never existed) in fear of legal repercussion, These are examples of interference in the operation of the free press in the US.

The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.



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26 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?


It may surprise you but the BBC and Al Jezeera and even our own Australian ABC have journalists who have been stationed in the US who have deep knowledge of the politics/culture in America.

Another advantage of foreign news services is that they are not subject to government pressure on their editorial team

This certainly happened during the Covington schoolboy legal case against the Washington post where the then POTUS interfered in two legal cases by supporting Nicholas Sandmann's parent's claims and secondly in the murder trial of Kyle Rittenhouse where again the POTUS threw his support behind the murder accused and against the families of the victims.

Both of these were major conflicts of interest given the legal team supporting Sandmann and Rittenhouse was pro-Trump, Pro-QAnon, Following Sandmann's successful out-of court settlement the events leading up to that particular story has been cancelled from media (as if it never existed) in fear of legal repercussion, These are examples of interference in the operation of the free press in the US.

The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


Whips or not, guys on horses trying to roundup people looks more than a little dehumanizing. Kinda like hunting humans in the original Planet Of The Apes.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2021, 10:40 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


Careful not to conflate two different issues. The first was a conflict of interest in that the office of president directly publicly commented about two legal cases (Sandmann and Rittenhouse) throwing support for both the accused controversially before a jury was able to deliberate. In addition the legal defence team in both cases were the same and both had connections to Trump and to conspiracy groups.

Sandmann's case was never proven to be a hoax as a settlement was made out of court to avoid tarnishing the Washington Posts reputation with advertisers frightened of the apparent public support the of the office of POTUS made to the case and the potential fall out with MAGAs who might boycott their products/services if they advertise with that media outlet.



DW_a_mom
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26 Sep 2021, 10:49 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


The way I understand the timeline, it wasn't a media hoax, but a personal one that went viral. I was seeing it spread person to person on Facebook hours before any news outlets mentioned it, and they only seemed to do so because it was already viral.

I'll say it a million times over, but sharing something someone created and posted is almost always a destructive decision. When sharing among friends, no one is vetting anything.


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