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Axeman
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09 Sep 2021, 6:06 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Should have said some men. It's a spectrum so there probably isn't just one cause. And women on the spectrum obviously don't have Y chromosomes.


I am not sure if I am missunderstanding context here, but I thought that it should be clear at this point that chromosomes don't make someone a man or not. Someone can have the chromosomes typically associated with male, and still be a woman or an enby.


We weren't discussing non binaries. A discussion of sex chromosome number anomalies resulting from chromosome nondisjunction led me to something called XXYY where the person has two X and two Y chromosomes. This results in a condition that is obviously a form of autism in some who have it.



Bradleigh
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09 Sep 2021, 10:02 pm

Axeman wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Should have said some men. It's a spectrum so there probably isn't just one cause. And women on the spectrum obviously don't have Y chromosomes.


I am not sure if I am missunderstanding context here, but I thought that it should be clear at this point that chromosomes don't make someone a man or not. Someone can have the chromosomes typically associated with male, and still be a woman or an enby.


We weren't discussing non binaries. A discussion of sex chromosome number anomalies resulting from chromosome nondisjunction led me to something called XXYY where the person has two X and two Y chromosomes. This results in a condition that is obviously a form of autism in some who have it.


But you were using terms like "men" and "women", which refers to gender, not what chromosomes are. Not only men are XY, women and enbies can also have XY, or in general Y chromosomes.

This talk of combinations of chromosomes that are not XX and XY are something that could be used to distinct biology too of not really being a binary, but the distinction then might be something like: males, females and intersex. But men, women and enby (non-binary) are gendered terms, you don't really use them to refer to biology, although male and female can probably be used in gendered ways also, to group man with boy and woman with girl.

This being a non-binary topic, I just thought that being distinct here would be important.


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Axeman
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09 Sep 2021, 10:12 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Should have said some men. It's a spectrum so there probably isn't just one cause. And women on the spectrum obviously don't have Y chromosomes.


I am not sure if I am missunderstanding context here, but I thought that it should be clear at this point that chromosomes don't make someone a man or not. Someone can have the chromosomes typically associated with male, and still be a woman or an enby.


We weren't discussing non binaries. A discussion of sex chromosome number anomalies resulting from chromosome nondisjunction led me to something called XXYY where the person has two X and two Y chromosomes. This results in a condition that is obviously a form of autism in some who have it.


But you were using terms like "men" and "women", which refers to gender, not what chromosomes are. Not only men are XY, women and enbies can also have XY, or in general Y chromosomes.

This talk of combinations of chromosomes that are not XX and XY are something that could be used to distinct biology too of not really being a binary, but the distinction then might be something like: males, females and intersex. But men, women and enby (non-binary) are gendered terms, you don't really use them to refer to biology, although male and female can probably be used in gendered ways also, to group man with boy and woman with girl.

This being a non-binary topic, I just thought that being distinct here would be important.


From a strictly physical biological pov the possession of a Y chromosome generally makes you male. I mean in terms of development, hormones, sex organs, etc. There are genes on the Y specific for this.



Bradleigh
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09 Sep 2021, 10:38 pm

Axeman wrote:
From a strictly physical biological pov the possession of a Y chromosome generally makes you male. I mean in terms of development, hormones, sex organs, etc. There are genes on the Y specific for this.


And there is a distinction made between the male when referring to sex, and male when referring to gender, they are not the same thing. Someone might be female by their sex (chromosomes), and male with gender (man and boy). I do think that people get tripped over because they are used to just going male chromosomes means man, and it probably finds itself that we use the same word to mean multiple things. And probably the majority of the time assuming won't make you wrong.

I understand that you meant sex/biology. But especially in a topic around explaining non-binary in the LGBT forum, I think it important to be specific with terminology, and not generalise saying something like only men have XY chromosomes, or that women cannot.


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Ettina
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04 Oct 2021, 8:12 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Axeman wrote:
From a strictly physical biological pov the possession of a Y chromosome generally makes you male. I mean in terms of development, hormones, sex organs, etc. There are genes on the Y specific for this.


And there is a distinction made between the male when referring to sex, and male when referring to gender, they are not the same thing. Someone might be female by their sex (chromosomes), and male with gender (man and boy). I do think that people get tripped over because they are used to just going male chromosomes means man, and it probably finds itself that we use the same word to mean multiple things. And probably the majority of the time assuming won't make you wrong.

I understand that you meant sex/biology. But especially in a topic around explaining non-binary in the LGBT forum, I think it important to be specific with terminology, and not generalise saying something like only men have XY chromosomes, or that women cannot.


I find it makes things much clearer if you refer to the biological phenotypes as AMAB and AFAB (assigned male/female at birth) and the identities as men and women.