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Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 1:43 pm

I don't think I get it. Do non binaries identify as neither male or female? Is this like androgyny? Who are they attracted to and or have relationships with? I've heard there are three flavors of non binaries but I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

Trans people I get. They are born one way and have medical procedures to become the other. Usually men becoming women but sometimes the other way around. Bi people I get, and I don't see it as necessarily the lifestyle thing that being gay or trans is. Most of the bi people I know are sexually attracted to both but have relationships only with the opposite sex. This is especially true of bi men. Those that are attracted equally to everyone are pansexual, and this is much less common. Asexuals simply have no sexual interest.



HeroOfHyrule
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22 Aug 2021, 1:49 pm

The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


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I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

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Empathy Quotient: 34/80
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You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 1:52 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Something else like what?



Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 1:55 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Which of the three do you identify as?



HeroOfHyrule
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22 Aug 2021, 2:08 pm

I have a preference towards identifying as "male", but still don't really feel like I can fully discern my identity as either "male" or "female", so that's why I've decided to mark my gender as "nonbinary".

As for what "other" genders there are, maybe you can Google "nonbinary gender identities" or something similar to get an idea of those. I don't identify like that and don't personally know a lot of people who do, so unfortunately I'm not the best person to ask for reliable examples of genders beyond male/female. Maybe someone else will respond and list some of those?


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I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
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Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2021, 2:11 pm

Axeman wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Which of the three do you identify as?


You're thinking like it's one of three doors.
Think of it more like it's on a spectrum.


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HeroOfHyrule
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22 Aug 2021, 2:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Which of the three do you identify as?

You're thinking like it's one of three doors.
Think of it more like it's on a spectrum.

This is a more accurate way to describe being NB, thank you. I should have clarified that it's more of a spectrum than just set identities.


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 2:29 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I have a preference towards identifying as "male", but still don't really feel like I can fully discern my identity as either "male" or "female", so that's why I've decided to mark my gender as "nonbinary".


That sounds like Link of Hyrule to me.



Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 2:31 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Which of the three do you identify as?


You're thinking like it's one of three doors.
Think of it more like it's on a spectrum.


Ok...so what does it mean to you? How do you identify on this spectrum?



funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2021, 2:34 pm

Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
The "gender binary" is female and male, and people who are nonbinary either identify as something else than male/female, feel as if they have an identity that isn't particularly discernable as male or female, or feel as if they don't really have a gender. They can be attracted to anyone of any gender or sex, just like cis and binary trans people.


Which of the three do you identify as?


You're thinking like it's one of three doors.
Think of it more like it's on a spectrum.


Ok...so what does it mean to you? How do you identify on this spectrum?


I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, I just feel NB is more accurate than calling myself a man.


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FleaOfTheChill
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22 Aug 2021, 5:39 pm

I'm going to pick this apart bit by bit.

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I don't think I get it. Do non binaries identify as neither male or female? Is this like androgyny?


It depends on the person. Some might say that no, they don't feel male or female, others might have more of a pull to one than the other, and others might find themselves alternating how they feel, male/male-ish sometimes, female/female-ish other times. Some might liken it to androgyny, others might feel that would be an inaccurate thing to say. There is no one way to be under this particular umbrella term. You meet one non binary person, you met one non binary person. The one thing we have in common is that we don't fit neatly into some male/female binary. I wonder sometimes if that is why some people struggle to understand non binary...because it isn't one neat, clear cut thing.

For myself, I don't feel male or female. I never have. Androgyny doesn't seem a good fit for me because I don't care about presenting as neither and to me androgyny is more of an outwards expression...but that's just me. I knew I wasn't the same on the inside as the outside, but I wasn't trans either. I have no dysphoria and I don't want to be the opposite of my assigned birth gender. I also don't care how people see me. If you see me as a he, call me he. If you see me as a she, call me she. If you see me as neither, call me they (I don't like 'it' though...makes me feel like I'm a table or something).

For me non binary works because I'm not a cis person, and I'm not suffering because my body doesn't match who I really am. I don't care about it beyond understanding myself as a person. I was glad when the term non binary showed up because I finally had something that fit with how I felt. It was nice to know I wasn't alone in this.

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Who are they attracted to and or have relationships with?


Again, depends on the person. It's the same as with anyone else, some might be attracted to one gender only, some might not care about gender, you know, whatever.

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Trans people I get. They are born one way and have medical procedures to become the other. Usually men becoming women but sometimes the other way around.


You don't have to have medical procedures to be trans. A lot of people never have that for whatever reason...I've known some very trans folk who couldn't afford these things and their insurance considered it unnecessary, so yeah. It sucks.

And you think so? I never looked at statistics, but I've happened to know more ftm trans folk that mtf. But that's just me. Like I said, I never looked into that.

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Bi people I get, and I don't see it as necessarily the lifestyle thing that being gay or trans is. Most of the bi people I know are sexually attracted to both but have relationships only with the opposite sex. This is especially true of bi men.


From my own life experience (to be taken with a grain of salt) and maybe because of my age, a lot of gay people wouldn't take me seriously as a partner if I were to tell them I was bi (technically I am pan, but that's a new word...I'm old. :lol: ) thinking I was either experimenting or trying to be with them for some insincere reason before meandering back into the hetero world after I had my fun. It used to piss me off when that happened. Not everyone was a jerk about it, but some were.

I've also noticed there is a weird thing about bisexual men... there is the social stigma. It's way more acceptable for women to be bi than it is for men. It's messed up. I wonder how many of them there are, but are in hiding due to lack of acceptance and understanding. I hope if this hasn't been changing over the last few years, that it starts to.

Anyway, you don't have to have a preference if you're bi. Some do, but a lot don't. Generally if you're bi, you get assumed to be straight or gay based on who you are involved with. It gets annoying.

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Those that are attracted equally to everyone are pansexual, and this is much less common.


Pansexual is a bit more complicated than that. Some might identify with being pan and totally agree with you. Others, like myself, would say that pan is more inclusive. Bi assumes that male female binary and pan does not. I learned about the term from an old friend of mine who made the comment that me calling myself bi was excluding a large group of people I would actually date... like him (a trans guy) or myself (non binary). That's why I dropped the bi and went with pan.

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Asexuals simply have no sexual interest.


I dunno about that one. I don't know much about asexuality though. I was under the impression it was a bit of a spectrum as well...that some might never want sex, while others might only once a year or something so infrequently to the oversexed masses, that asexuality seems fitting and appropriate to them.

Meh. I talked a lot. I'll shut up now.



ezbzbfcg2
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22 Aug 2021, 6:00 pm

Axeman wrote:
Ok...so what does it mean to you? How do you identify on this spectrum?


From what I gather, most people who openly identify this way tend to clam up when asked how they reached their decision. I have nothing against them, but to me it seems like a trend.

You know, I feel for people who say they were born in the wrong body. I don't have that issue personally, but I sympathize with someone who really looks at their genitalia and cringes. I try to imagine what that would be like.

As far as non-binary, I think a lot of people get swept up in extreme ideas of gender roles, to the point that they actually think more about it than the manliest man or the girliest woman think about their own behavior. You won't get a straight answer. In theory, as this trend seems to be playing out, we're all non-binary unless we act a very gender-specific way.

But I always think of the song Lola by the Kinks. Lola was a cross-dresser, possibly non-binary. Maybe Lola felt like a man at times and a woman at others, meaning his/her gender identity depended upon the occasion. Still, I always like the way the narrator phrased it: "I'm not the world's most masculine man, but I know what I am, and I'm glad I'm a man...and so is Lola."

Point is, forget about Lola for a moment. The narrator himself not being the most masculine man today might make some man in a similar situation feel he needs to identify as non-binary for not living up to the archetype.



Axeman
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22 Aug 2021, 6:12 pm

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I'm going to pick this apart bit by bit.

Quote:
I don't think I get it. Do non binaries identify as neither male or female? Is this like androgyny?


It depends on the person. Some might say that no, they don't feel male or female, others might have more of a pull to one than the other, and others might find themselves alternating how they feel, male/male-ish sometimes, female/female-ish other times. Some might liken it to androgyny, others might feel that would be an inaccurate thing to say. There is no one way to be under this particular umbrella term. You meet one non binary person, you met one non binary person. The one thing we have in common is that we don't fit neatly into some male/female binary. I wonder sometimes if that is why some people struggle to understand non binary...because it isn't one neat, clear cut thing.

For myself, I don't feel male or female. I never have. Androgyny doesn't seem a good fit for me because I don't care about presenting as neither and to me androgyny is more of an outwards expression...but that's just me. I knew I wasn't the same on the inside as the outside, but I wasn't trans either. I have no dysphoria and I don't want to be the opposite of my assigned birth gender. I also don't care how people see me. If you see me as a he, call me he. If you see me as a she, call me she. If you see me as neither, call me they (I don't like 'it' though...makes me feel like I'm a table or something).

For me non binary works because I'm not a cis person, and I'm not suffering because my body doesn't match who I really am. I don't care about it beyond understanding myself as a person. I was glad when the term non binary showed up because I finally had something that fit with how I felt. It was nice to know I wasn't alone in this.

Quote:
Who are they attracted to and or have relationships with?


Again, depends on the person. It's the same as with anyone else, some might be attracted to one gender only, some might not care about gender, you know, whatever.

Quote:
Trans people I get. They are born one way and have medical procedures to become the other. Usually men becoming women but sometimes the other way around.


You don't have to have medical procedures to be trans. A lot of people never have that for whatever reason...I've known some very trans folk who couldn't afford these things and their insurance considered it unnecessary, so yeah. It sucks.

And you think so? I never looked at statistics, but I've happened to know more ftm trans folk that mtf. But that's just me. Like I said, I never looked into that.

Quote:
Bi people I get, and I don't see it as necessarily the lifestyle thing that being gay or trans is. Most of the bi people I know are sexually attracted to both but have relationships only with the opposite sex. This is especially true of bi men.


From my own life experience (to be taken with a grain of salt) and maybe because of my age, a lot of gay people wouldn't take me seriously as a partner if I were to tell them I was bi (technically I am pan, but that's a new word...I'm old. :lol: ) thinking I was either experimenting or trying to be with them for some insincere reason before meandering back into the hetero world after I had my fun. It used to piss me off when that happened. Not everyone was a jerk about it, but some were.

I've also noticed there is a weird thing about bisexual men... there is the social stigma. It's way more acceptable for women to be bi than it is for men. It's messed up. I wonder how many of them there are, but are in hiding due to lack of acceptance and understanding. I hope if this hasn't been changing over the last few years, that it starts to.

Anyway, you don't have to have a preference if you're bi. Some do, but a lot don't. Generally if you're bi, you get assumed to be straight or gay based on who you are involved with. It gets annoying.

Quote:
Those that are attracted equally to everyone are pansexual, and this is much less common.


Pansexual is a bit more complicated than that. Some might identify with being pan and totally agree with you. Others, like myself, would say that pan is more inclusive. Bi assumes that male female binary and pan does not. I learned about the term from an old friend of mine who made the comment that me calling myself bi was excluding a large group of people I would actually date... like him (a trans guy) or myself (non binary). That's why I dropped the bi and went with pan.

Quote:
Asexuals simply have no sexual interest.


I dunno about that one. I don't know much about asexuality though. I was under the impression it was a bit of a spectrum as well...that some might never want sex, while others might only once a year or something so infrequently to the oversexed masses, that asexuality seems fitting and appropriate to them.

Meh. I talked a lot. I'll shut up now.


Thank you. This was very helpful. It's always been accepted for women to be casually bi even by men who otherwise frown on gays. The reason shouldn't take much thought.



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22 Aug 2021, 7:59 pm

In terms of what types of non-binary genders, I think that the meaning of the flag colours can be a way to have a place to start.
Image

Maybe more simply, yellow is like a gender separate from male or female, black is not a gender (agender), purple is between genders, and white for multiple genders (bigender) or one that may shift (genderfluid). But these themselves are not hard categories for enbies actually to be put into, I think this is what people might refer to as a spectrum where they might fit into multiple categories. It might even be a fact that most people to some extent might fit into some of these spectrums to at least a little amount, but identifying as enby I guess is when we feel more in these than the binary.

I agree it can be confusing, maybe ill defined as I myself have tried to get a understanding of it as I try to even understand myself. For the record, I think my gender shifts over time, where sometimes I feel masculine, and other days more feminine, but it doesn't quite feel like I would tell someone to call me a man today or something. Nor is it like I become a different person, just different expressions of my gender at different times, and if I had my way maybe my appearance would shift based on the gender I feel at that time, but I am not modern comic book Loki.

As for a partial need for the identity, it is along the lines of being attached to characters who spread across gender such fluidly, like I imagine most people feel represented by a character of their gender. Some enbies often don't realise what they are actually missing out on and just play the hand they were dealt in thinking it is normal.


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Axeman
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23 Aug 2021, 1:45 am

So if someone tells you they are non binary, the only thing that really tells you is they do not identify as male or female in the traditional sense. The precise meaning depends on the person and can be third gender (neither male or female), gender fluid( can be one or the other depending on situation, mood, etc), mix of both, or no gender.



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23 Aug 2021, 2:29 am

Axeman wrote:
So if someone tells you they are non binary, the only thing that really tells you is they do not identify as male or female in the traditional sense. The precise meaning depends on the person and can be third gender (neither male or female), gender fluid( can be one or the other depending on situation, mood, etc), mix of both, or no gender.


This is indeed correct.


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