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skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 4:35 pm

I had a very frustrating conversation with a friend recently. He was trying to convince me that I need to socialize more. I get so infuriated when people think they know my needs better than I do.

One of the things I told him that makes socializing hard is that it's difficult to talk to nts because I am often too analytical and intense for them. Many of them just don't have depth and the analytical intelligence to have an enriching conversation with me. I find that people who can are very few and far between. His solution was that I should make myself less intelligent. :roll:

But before he said that, he asked, "Why is it hard for you? Are you too Blunt? "

I don't know. That kind of made my blood boil. I guess I get really angry when people say stupid things like that. Why would he automatically assume that the reason I don't have lots of friends is because of something I am doing because I am Autistic? It's amazing how it never occurs to them that people refuse to be my friend because they can't accept something that doesn't fit neatly into the little box they socially want me to fit in. That's nothing I am doing. It's 100% what they are doing.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Aug 2021, 4:58 pm

It’s ridiculous advice for anybody to portray themselves as “less intelligent” than they actually are.

I received this advice, too.

I’m not very “analytical.” This does not mean that I lack intelligence, or that I can’t have a substantive conversation with someone.



AprilR
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22 Aug 2021, 5:02 pm

"His solution was that I should make myself less intelligent"

Ahahah what does that even mean? So he is basically saying that you need to act like someone you are not so you can have "friends" What good are those friends? Why would you want to have people like that around you? Makes absolutely no sense.


"Why would he automatically assume that the reason I don't have lots of friends is because of something I am doing because I am Autistic?"

But even if that is true, how is that your fault? What does he expect you to do? Does he have no clue what he is saying is extremely hurtful?

I am sorry you had such an experience. I am angry at what you have gone through as well,
İ have also been called" cold" and emotionless dozens of time because i was too anxious to talk with people and basically wasn't socially developed enough. At least i am glad you know enough about yourself to not beat up yourself for it. I used to believe the lies people told me about "me" because i had no self esteem.



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22 Aug 2021, 5:23 pm

I do dumb down myself a lot in conversations. Thing is, NTs prefer to communicate with emotions rather than intellect. They dont want to exchange knowledge. They exchange something else.

There is no right or wrong way. These are just different ways and we are unfortunate to be the minority.



kraftiekortie
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22 Aug 2021, 6:03 pm

I’m not smart enough to dumb down :P



naturalplastic
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22 Aug 2021, 6:31 pm

I dont see the problem.

He is giving you good advice.

Take it.

Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.



skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 6:33 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s ridiculous advice for anybody to portray themselves as “less intelligent” than they actually are.

I received this advice, too.

I’m not very “analytical.” This does not mean that I lack intelligence, or that I can’t have a substantive conversation with someone.
you are very intelligent.

What I find though is that intense ability and need to analyze makes people not want to be my friends. I am being constantly told to stop analyizing. But that is like telling me to stop breathing so that they can be friends with me.

I can easily restrain myself from analyzing out loud and just going with the flow of whomever I am speaking to but it is so exhausting and draining for me to have to do that I simply no longer have the social stamina or social energy to do that and I end up collapsing from exhaustion. I just don't want to keep putting myself through that kind of stress so much anymore.


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skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 6:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I dont see the problem.

He is giving you good advice.

Take it.

Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.
I have been doing exactly that for over 50 years. I no longer have the ability to sustain it. It is causing me to literally collapse from social exhaustion even after just a few minutes of it now.


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skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 6:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I’m not smart enough to dumb down :P
:D


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skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 6:37 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I dont see the problem.

He is giving you good advice.

Take it.

Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.
I don't need "friends" that badly. If you need me to be something I am not to be my friend, you are not my friend.


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skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 6:39 pm

AprilR wrote:
"His solution was that I should make myself less intelligent"

Ahahah what does that even mean? So he is basically saying that you need to act like someone you are not so you can have "friends" What good are those friends? Why would you want to have people like that around you? Makes absolutely no sense.


"Why would he automatically assume that the reason I don't have lots of friends is because of something I am doing because I am Autistic?"

But even if that is true, how is that your fault? What does he expect you to do? Does he have no clue what he is saying is extremely hurtful?

I am sorry you had such an experience. I am angry at what you have gone through as well,
İ have also been called" cold" and emotionless dozens of time because i was too anxious to talk with people and basically wasn't socially developed enough. At least i am glad you know enough about yourself to not beat up yourself for it. I used to believe the lies people told me about "me" because i had no self esteem.
THANK YOU!! !! !! :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:


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nzka
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22 Aug 2021, 7:26 pm

The best advice I ever heard was "never mask as something you couldn't maintain." In case you do try to mask. If you can't maintain it, it always comes out one way or another. For example I can mask as being overly polite and pretending I don't have bad thoughts-- I can't mask being outgoing or liking mechanics, things like that.

I feel like when we mask or dumb ourselves down to more palatable things, we sacrifice our good qualities for only an imitation, and nt people sniff out "fakes" pretty darn good...nt people are genocidal by nature and quick to remove what's not just like them, even if not by killing them there are other ways to "genocide" like total isolation, tearing people down so much they get depressed and hurt themselves, etc. :(

To be honest nt friends are severely overrated. I like my animals, stuffed toys, self ship/fictional others, religion, Tomodachi Life, forums, and being the mysterious lady in a stranger's life thankyouverymuch :o well...honestly...I do still have social needs but neglecting those > being unappreciated and disliked no matter what, that's just so depressing. :cry:



skibum
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22 Aug 2021, 8:23 pm

nzka wrote:
The best advice I ever heard was "never mask as something you couldn't maintain." In case you do try to mask. If you can't maintain it, it always comes out one way or another. For example I can mask as being overly polite and pretending I don't have bad thoughts-- I can't mask being outgoing or liking mechanics, things like that.

I feel like when we mask or dumb ourselves down to more palatable things, we sacrifice our good qualities for only an imitation, and nt people sniff out "fakes" pretty darn good...nt people are genocidal by nature and quick to remove what's not just like them, even if not by killing them there are other ways to "genocide" like total isolation, tearing people down so much they get depressed and hurt themselves, etc. :(

To be honest nt friends are severely overrated. I like my animals, stuffed toys, self ship/fictional others, religion, Tomodachi Life, forums, and being the mysterious lady in a stranger's life thankyouverymuch :o well...honestly...I do still have social needs but neglecting those > being unappreciated and disliked no matter what, that's just so depressing. :cry:
I agree with you. And I have had so many nts reprimand me saying I'm fake. I'm like, you don't like me if I'm real because you're not intelligent enough but when I try to dumb down for you you complain that I'm fake. I am not a skilled liar. Even when I would try to mask they would complain that I wasn't being real. It's not worth the effort.


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22 Aug 2021, 11:59 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.


You do not have to "be fake" to survive. You *DO* need to know who your audience is, and do your best to work within that situation to "go with the flow" of whom you are with.

My advice? Develop the audience YOU are comfortable with, and that is going to accept who YOU are. Everybody else can kinda F* off.

I am pretty analytical myself. I really dislike when people throw tons and tons of information at me, because I start organizing it intellectually into segments that I can address, one piece at a time, and when I do that it seems to bother some people because it doesn't address the whole set. And for me that isn't true because I have to address each part in order to address the whole set, and this one section I am working on analyzing is all I can handle right now. It is not *MY* fault that you aren't able to organize your own thoughts in a way that helps you see the problem plainly, and I am a bit irritated when I am burdened with doing it for them.

And I unfortunately can't shut that off. I do it regardless of what is going on. I end up having to bite my tongue most of the time to keep from interrupting to address something that wasn't resolved 5 minutes back in a conversation...when I can clearly see it needs to be resolved, but nobody wants to go back that far.

Anyway, that is just me agreeing with your frustration. But if you cultivate the people who can work with your process, analytical or not, and can let THEM be the go between, or just outright avoid social situations that are going to force you to mask and be a different "fake" you... well, that might work.

But the problem is that you need to have people who are willing to do that, and that requires you finding the sort of people who fit that requirement. Not an easy task, and it can be made harder by a lot of factors.



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23 Aug 2021, 12:32 am

skibum wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I dont see the problem.

He is giving you good advice.

Take it.

Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.
I have been doing exactly that for over 50 years. I no longer have the ability to sustain it. It is causing me to literally collapse from social exhaustion even after just a few minutes of it now.


After a major burnout 7 years ago, I've given up on trying to meet others' unreasonable expectations. Now I'm just myself, and much happier that way. No faking. And guess what-- the people I actually want to interact with are fine with that. The others don't matter to me at all.


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skibum
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23 Aug 2021, 9:48 am

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
skibum wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I dont see the problem.

He is giving you good advice.

Take it.

Not "be dumb". But read the room, and be aware of "who your audience is", and play to the audience you have. Everyone has to be fake in order to survive. So join the human race.
I have been doing exactly that for over 50 years. I no longer have the ability to sustain it. It is causing me to literally collapse from social exhaustion even after just a few minutes of it now.


After a major burnout 7 years ago, I've given up on trying to meet others' unreasonable expectations. Now I'm just myself, and much happier that way. No faking. And guess what-- the people I actually want to interact with are fine with that. The others don't matter to me at all.
Amen to that!!


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"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph