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a bad guy or good guy
yes 20%  20%  [ 5 ]
other 68%  68%  [ 17 ]
no 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 25

Spaceplayer
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26 Jul 2007, 10:23 am

" He is evil" is to buy into the Judeo-Christian set of values. To say what's "good" or "evil" requires a system of values, otherwise, they're floating abstractions. (I don't buy into it, obviously...though I don't buy into satanism, either.) But to say simply that Satan is evil is to show a lack of biblical history. Lucifer means "Lightbringer," Satan means "Adversary." If you read the Old testament, you learn that the serpent in the garden is not referred to as either. Satan appears in the story of Job, having a conversation with God, no less. That's because in Jewish tradition, Satan as adversary was an "employee" of God, so to speak (to simplify, I liken it to the role of Slugworth in WILLY WONKA, someone hired by the boss to test the resolve of those seeking the Golden Ticket.) To say that Satan is simply evil-notice that God gave Satan permission to torture Job to test his loyalty. Who's evil?

I'm not certain, but I don't think the Jews have a concept of Hell, either. You can see the differences between the old and new Testaments on this count. Lucifer as morningstar is an interesting case because of the reference to Jesus Christ Morningstar elsewhere. But in Isiaah, Lucifer as Morningstar may be referring to Nebuchadnezzer.The whole story of the angel's rebellion, well, Revalations was rather tacked on at the end, and was a "dream" of John as opposed to being presented as "history."

At any rate, if you think life on Earth is inherently evil, profit is evil, food is evil, pride is evil, etc., and that the garden was paradise and the afterlife of Heaven is all milk and honey and angels on clouds, then yeah, Satan is evil. If you however, think that man belongs on this world (as opposed to this planet, natch), has a right to exist, that the body is not a source of shame, that sex is good, and you take pride in your accomplishments, then the whole Christian ethic is what's really evil.



bizarre
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26 Jul 2007, 11:29 am

Satan is the embodiment of evil.
I have no sympathy for the devil :evil:


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sinsboldly
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26 Jul 2007, 11:38 am

bizarre wrote:
Satan is the embodiment of evil.
I have no sympathy for the devil :evil:


well, that begs the question. . .what is 'evil', then doesn't it.

so. . .what is evil, since you know and I don't.



Spaceplayer
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26 Jul 2007, 11:46 am

Embodiment of Evil?
To live is to be evil, if you accept original sin.

"Am I evil?
Yes I am...
Am I evil?
I am man..."

Only I don't buy that, because I don't accept original sin.



bizarre
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26 Jul 2007, 11:47 am

You don't know the difference between good and evil?


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EatingPoetry
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26 Jul 2007, 11:49 am

There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.
William Shakespeare


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Anubis
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26 Jul 2007, 11:57 am

Satan represents all that is wrong with humanity.


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26 Jul 2007, 2:27 pm

My favourite literary representations of the Devil come from Milton's Paradise Lost and from the TV series Brimstone - in Milton's poem, Lucifer isn't actually a totally bad guy, and he takes full responsibility for getting his mates thrown out of Heaven. In fact, pretty much the first thing he says is something along the lines of "Stay here, lads - I got us into this mess, so I'm going to get us out of it. You guys chill here for a bit while I explore."

And in Brimstone, while Old Scratch is, in the main, portrayed as a dapper, impeccably-groomed middle-aged gentleman who occasionally waxes lyrical about (for instance) wrapping brains in barbed wire, he's also got a very deep undercurrent of buried pain at being cast out of Heaven by his Father (Zeke Stone, the main character, asks him "Still hurts, doesn't it?" and by his abrupt off-screen disappearance, you know that yes, it does indeed still hurt).

Like Hades, Hela and Anubis (the Greek, Norse and Egyptian death-gods) before him, Satan has a role to fill, although it's a pity there aren't any really nifty stories about what he likes to do in his spare time. Even Hades got to have a wife, after all...


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Spaceplayer
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26 Jul 2007, 5:57 pm

Of course I do. I just don't consider the Christian ethics to be the good. See Ayn Rand.



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26 Jul 2007, 6:16 pm

Spaceplayer wrote:
Of course I do. I just don't consider the Christian ethics to be the good. See Ayn Rand.


Ayn Rand, the creator of Objectivism, a philosophy which I disagree with.

Certain religious(not neccessarily Christian) tenets are neccessary and important to some peoples' lives, and help to inspire goodwill.

You may ask- "What is goodwill?"

And to that, I reply-

It is a will/action which is beneficial to another or society in the long run, and is a positive action which counteracts a negative action, or contributes to the greater good.

You have to look into your heart or others' minds to truly see what the ultimate "good" and "bad" means.


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28 Jul 2007, 1:22 pm

I don't think he exists.



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28 Jul 2007, 1:26 pm

I think Satan is a bad guy.



sinsboldly
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28 Jul 2007, 1:42 pm

I think Satan is one of those guys the NTs make up to scare people into following social norms.
I view any 'religion' the NTs follow with great skepticism. After I saw how they thought about people like ME, I just have to take anything ELSE they propose with a tablespoon of salt.



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28 Jul 2007, 7:55 pm

SamuraiSaxen wrote:
I think Satan is a bad guy.


Satan is a bad guy.
George Bush is a bad guy
Geroge Bush is Satan... 8O
(I'm not kidding)


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28 Jul 2007, 8:03 pm

satan is just a guy who gave us knowlege. if it wasnt for him we'd probably still be eating leaves in the forest, wich i wouldnt mind atall exept we wouldnt have computers, sportscards or blackmetal :D


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0_equals_true
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28 Jul 2007, 8:06 pm

richard are you satan? :D