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IsabellaLinton
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27 Sep 2021, 10:34 am

I think vasectomies are the most effective and least problematic means of contraception, overall.

Assuming of course the couple doesn't ever want children.



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27 Sep 2021, 12:57 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think vasectomies are the most effective and least problematic means of contraception, overall.

Assuming of course the couple doesn't ever want children.

Agreed. Vasectomy reversals can be pretty successful though. I've known a handful of couples (even those "past their prime") who were successful with them!


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Axeman
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27 Sep 2021, 1:05 pm

Flown wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think vasectomies are the most effective and least problematic means of contraception, overall.

Assuming of course the couple doesn't ever want children.

Agreed. Vasectomy reversals can be pretty successful though. I've known a handful of couples (even those "past their prime") who were successful with them!


You say doctors can refuse to do tubal ligations. How common is that? More than likely they are just afraid of being sued, and this can be handled with the signing of a legally binding contract contact.



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27 Sep 2021, 1:51 pm

Axeman wrote:
You say doctors can refuse to do tubal ligations. How common is that? More than likely they are just afraid of being sued, and this can be handled with the signing of a legally binding contract contact.


There are risks with any procedure that can be handled via a waiver/contract, yes. Any elective surgery typically involves one. I've come across many women who have attempted to get this procedure and failed: some are acquaintances of mine, some I have met in chronic health communities, and some I have seen only in the news.

Despite the following,
1) health issues that would be exacerbated by pregnancy
2) having mental health issues that would make motherhood a near impossibility
3) not wanting children for personal reasons
4) being LGBTQ+ and uninterested in children of their own
5) Being 1 & or 2 and having a husband that refuses to get a vasectomy
women are overwhelmingly denied this procedure (unless they have already had multiple children and are close to menopause). From what I've heard, doctors do not mention the RISK of the procedure and are more concerned with the potential regret the patient may face years down the road. The uniting features of these women's experiences seem to be:

*being denied this option by male doctors
*being treated with condescension
*being told things like "you will regret it later", "you might want to give your husband a child later", etc

It isn't a rare occurrence in the US, and you can easily GOOGLE SEARCH and find a plethora of articles detailing personal accounts. I'd also like to note that (in the US) there are federal laws which "allow providers to refuse sterilization services to patients due to religious objections...18 states allow some of their health care providers to refuse sterilization services to patients." To me, this is just another example of a woman's bodily autonomy being stripped away. It's not shocking to me because it is the norm.

EDIT:
I would be interested to see the data on these cases (regional distribution patterns, patient demographics, doctor demographics, etc)!


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Axeman
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27 Sep 2021, 2:03 pm

Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
You say doctors can refuse to do tubal ligations. How common is that? More than likely they are just afraid of being sued, and this can be handled with the signing of a legally binding contract contact.


There are risks with any procedure that can be handled via a waiver/contract, yes. Any elective surgery typically involves one. I've come across many women who have attempted to get this procedure and failed: some are acquaintances of mine, some I have met in chronic health communities, and some I have seen only in the news.

Despite the following,
1) health issues that would be exacerbated by pregnancy
2) having mental health issues that would make motherhood a near impossibility
3) not wanting children for personal reasons
4) being LGBTQ+ and uninterested in children of their own
5) Being 1 & or 2 and having a husband that refuses to get a vasectomy
women are overwhelmingly denied this procedure (unless they have already had multiple children and are close to menopause). From what I've heard, doctors do not mention the RISK of the procedure and are more concerned with the potential regret the patient may face years down the road. The uniting features of these women's experiences seem to be:

*being denied this option by male doctors
*being treated with condescension
*being told things like "you will regret it later", "you might want to give your husband a child later", etc

It isn't a rare occurrence in the US, and you can easily GOOGLE SEARCH and find a plethora of articles detailing personal accounts. I'd also like to note that (in the US) there are federal laws which "allow providers to refuse sterilization services to patients due to religious objections...18 states allow some of their health care providers to refuse sterilization services to patients." To me, this is just another example of a woman's bodily autonomy being stripped away. It's not shocking to me because it is the norm.


If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.



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27 Sep 2021, 2:07 pm

Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


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Jakki
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27 Sep 2021, 3:00 pm

These issues about denieing people control of their own bodies probably includes the entire
Bible belt here.


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DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 3:26 pm

Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


Congratulations, that in a nutshell is the difference between experiencing life as a man and not as a woman. You have the gift of living completely oblivious to the reality of how some issues play out in real life.


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Axeman
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27 Sep 2021, 3:29 pm

Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


Whatever. People shouldn't be exterminated because they are inconvient or because they have undesired genetic traits.



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27 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Congratulations, that in a nutshell is the difference between experiencing life as a man and not as a woman. You have the gift of living completely oblivious to the reality of how some issues play out in real life.


Exactly this.


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DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 3:49 pm

Axeman wrote:
Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


Whatever. People shouldn't be exterminated because they are inconvient or because they have undesired genetic traits.


Men shouldn’t make laws about complex situations that they don’t understand and continue to brush off as “inconvenient.”

There are ways to save the lives of the unborn that do not involve ignorant and putative measures against women. Address the factors that drive women to have to make a choice. We have a model on how to do that: the Netherlands.


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Axeman
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27 Sep 2021, 3:55 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


Whatever. People shouldn't be exterminated because they are inconvient or because they have undesired genetic traits.


Men shouldn’t make laws about complex situations that they don’t understand and continue to brush off as “inconvenient.”

There are ways to save the lives of the unborn that do not involve ignorant and putative measures against women. Address the factors that drive women to have to make a choice. We have a model on how to do that: the Netherlands.


Women talk about equality but what you really want is everything all your way. But that's not even my main issue on this. It's the potential extermination of people with autism just like what is now happening to people with Downs. 90 percent of Downs pregnancies are terminated because their parents don't want a disabled kid.



DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 4:09 pm

Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


Whatever. People shouldn't be exterminated because they are inconvient or because they have undesired genetic traits.


Men shouldn’t make laws about complex situations that they don’t understand and continue to brush off as “inconvenient.”

There are ways to save the lives of the unborn that do not involve ignorant and putative measures against women. Address the factors that drive women to have to make a choice. We have a model on how to do that: the Netherlands.


Women talk about equality but what you really want is everything all your way. But that's not even my main issue on this. It's the potential extermination of people with autism just like what is now happening to people with Downs. 90 percent of Downs pregnancies are terminated because their parents don't want a disabled kid.


Did you miss the part where I proposed a solution for how to get what you want without leaving women between a rock and a hard place?

I wouldn’t fight on this issue if I didn’t have a viable solution. Take the issue out of politics and laws and I am actively pro-life.

It isn’t about getting what women want. It’s about solving a problem in a way that actually works because the laws of men (double use of the word intended) have a funny way of making everything worse. You don’t know how to solve the problem because you don’t understand the source of the problem.


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auntblabby
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27 Sep 2021, 4:34 pm

an alternate needs to be mentioned, the Reality FC2 inverse condom. women are protected, men get sensations they wouldn't get wearing a regular pleasure-blocking condom.



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27 Sep 2021, 8:13 pm

Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Flown wrote:
Axeman wrote:
If I wanted a vasectomy I know it wouldn't be difficult to arrange. I certainly wouldn't face any of this crap.


You might even get a wink and a chummy pat on the back for getting one! :roll:


Whatever. People shouldn't be exterminated because they are inconvient or because they have undesired genetic traits.


Men shouldn’t make laws about complex situations that they don’t understand and continue to brush off as “inconvenient.”

There are ways to save the lives of the unborn that do not involve ignorant and putative measures against women. Address the factors that drive women to have to make a choice. We have a model on how to do that: the Netherlands.


Women talk about equality but what you really want is everything all your way. But that's not even my main issue on this. It's the potential extermination of people with autism just like what is now happening to people with Downs. 90 percent of Downs pregnancies are terminated because their parents don't want a disabled kid.


How are the doctors able to tell the kid will likely be born with down syndrom though?



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27 Sep 2021, 8:16 pm

ironpony wrote:
How are the doctors able to tell the kid will likely be born with down syndrom though?

Nuchal translucency test-
Using your age and the results of the blood test and the ultrasound, your doctor or genetic counselor can estimate your risk of having a baby with Down syndrome.