Response to "If you are a white person... "

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funeralxempire
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22 Sep 2021, 7:28 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

To be fair, it's an issue where a lot of people regardless of being for or against don't seem to make an effort to understand what it is before getting angry about it.

Most of the people freaking out at school board meetings aren't even complaining about actual CRT, they're just worried their kids might hear less than flattering parts of American history discussed and that's what the talking heads in their echo chambers have told them CRT is.

Eh, I think that's a bit of a dodge, Chris Rufo (the guy who started the anti CRT thing) has been pretty clear that he's using the term as a sort of catch all for leftish race stuff rather than the formal theory, and what people are objecting to is not kids being taught about the less savory aspects of American history (as has been taught for decades), it's the newer "anti racist", all white people are born racist and must forever struggle to redeem themselves style that is in fact CRT influenced that's drawing the objections.

Well, if he's aware he's grifting people with the term while actually just bitching about anti-racism that makes it much better. :nerdy:

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Dox47
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22 Sep 2021, 8:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Well, if he's aware he's grifting people with the term while actually just bitching about anti-racism that makes it much better. :nerdy:

Can you actually make a positive case here, or are you just going to keep snarking because someone is using a word in a way you don't approve of? I don't care that Rufo and co are not using CRT 100% accurately, I know what they're doing and I (mostly) approve of it, and they're getting results; what is your defense of critical theory derived teachings in public schools?

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cyberdad
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22 Sep 2021, 9:12 pm

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

Dox47
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22 Sep 2021, 9:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

You're selling tickets to Bible camp at an atheist convention, it might be a while.

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dorkseid
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22 Sep 2021, 9:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

I have personally been bullied by so-called woke SJWs and feminists denying my own experiences of marginalization on the basis of white privilege.

Again, the point was never about the concept of white privilege, but rather how certain people misuse it.

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22 Sep 2021, 9:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

So does everybody (except black people) have white privilege, much like the Bible teaches that everybody is born a sinner?

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funeralxempire
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22 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Well, if he's aware he's grifting people with the term while actually just bitching about anti-racism that makes it much better. :nerdy:

I'm not trying to make a positive case, I'm just pointing out that Rufo and similar rely on dishonestly portraying a topic and reducing it to buzzwords to present their case which is largely an appeal to emotion and grievance. If that's what resonates with you, that's nice but I'm not going to pretend like it doesn't look like grifters exploiting people's rage.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 22 Sep 2021, 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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22 Sep 2021, 9:50 pm

Dox47 wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

You're selling tickets to Bible camp at an atheist convention, it might be a while.

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22 Sep 2021, 9:54 pm

dorkseid wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

In that case they are using their NT privilege. I am sure there are individuals out there like these ones who use social justice as a stick or to further some agenda. This includes some black people.

But its equally silly to label everyone who is progressive in terms of civil rights or the environment as SJWs or woke.

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22 Sep 2021, 9:57 pm

smudge wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

So does everybody (except black people) have white privilege, much like the Bible teaches that everybody is born a sinner?

Think of it like a circus where you have a free pass to a few rides that black folk don't get. It doesn't define who you are.

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22 Sep 2021, 10:04 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

If that's what you think is going on, then I'm afraid you don't really understand the issue, people have been concerned about the ideological indoctrination occurring in schools under the banner of a number of progressive buzzwords for many years, all that Rufo did was create an umbrella term for it and get people organized who previously had been lone voices in the wilderness. The truth is that progressive anti racism is not popular when you explain to people what it actually means, which is why these folks are fighting tooth and nail trying to wriggle away on a technicality, "that's not really CRT!", because they know they can't defend it on the merits. I'm sure next it will be real CRT has never been tried.

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smudge
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22 Sep 2021, 10:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:

smudge wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

I am still waiting for somebody to provide evidence that acknowledging white privilege exists makes their life worse?

So does everybody (except black people) have white privilege, much like the Bible teaches that everybody is born a sinner?

Think of it like a circus where you have a free pass to a few rides that black folk don't get. It doesn't define who you are.

Looked at that way, it sort of makes more sense.

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funeralxempire
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22 Sep 2021, 10:09 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Is teaching history accurately ideological indoctrination? People losing their minds over OMG MY KID WILL LEARN ABOUT RACISM are entitled to express that view but it doesn't mean their grievance is legitimate. Educating those people is a more appropriate response than amplifying their (often uninformed or misinformed) concerns.

cyberdad
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22 Sep 2021, 10:19 pm

I gotta hand it to the GOP politicians making things like critical race theory front and centre of their platforms
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ed/618828/

it's cringeworthy but somehow not surprising people fall for this.

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22 Sep 2021, 11:34 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

That's a strawman, the issue is not accurate history, it's things like telling the white kids they were born into privilege and have to constantly atone for it, or dividing the kids up according to an oppression matrix and segregating the class according to identity characteristics. You're doing the exact thing you complain about, wading into a debate you don't actually understand and swinging your purse around blindly, you might want to actually go look at Rufo's website, his primary tool has been leaked documents from districts, you don't have to take his word on what's being taught, there are primary sources available.

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funeralxempire
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22 Sep 2021, 11:47 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

If that's how they're teaching about the concept of privilege they're probably going to end up doing more damage than good to how well people understand the concept.

That said, discussion over how the Civil War, Reconstruction and the Jim Crow era are taught have also been a significant flash point. That might not be specifically what Rufo has focused on, but it is a common motivator. When you see videos of people losing their s**t at school board meetings they're not usually referring to what you're describing - at least as far as I've seen.

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