16 Sep 2021, 10:14 am
16 Sep 2021, 10:44 am
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,389
Location: Long Island, New York
16 Sep 2021, 10:50 am
16 Sep 2021, 11:09 am
16 Sep 2021, 6:41 pm
16 Sep 2021, 6:45 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war. General Milley committed treason.
I don't think he committed treason.
He didn't act on it one way or 'tuther because Trump didn't initiate an attack.
This is an undeniable fact, simples.
"Whataboutism" is not wanted here if I understand the term correctly.
And, yes, Trump wasn't a warmonger.
He was a businessman that wanted to improve America's economic strength.
Unfortunately, he was also an isolationist, which damaged Australian existential security, hence, one of the reasons I am glad he is no longer the US president and why I prefer Joe Biden.
16 Sep 2021, 6:48 pm
Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....he set a dangerous precedent.
If Milley gets off he will have set an incredibly dangerous precedent.Either way, the bottom line is that Trump did NOT get his chance to watch the world burn, and I am grateful for that.
I don't know how many times people have to point out that Trump was anti-war.
Please have some respect for the Truth.
The Oracle of Truth has spoken.
16 Sep 2021, 6:56 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war. General Milley committed treason.
These other Presidents lit fires. Trump “played with fire”. On the surface lit fires are worse then potential ones. Wars with the Taliban, Saddam etc are much less “fire” then
potential “fires” with North Korea or China could have been. Who was engaging in riskier behavior is a judgment call based on a hypothetical.
Trump took America out of the Syrian War, avoided a showdown with Iran, prepared to leave Afghanistan, literally shook hands with the North Korean Leader.
Yes, these are the signs of a warmonger. [humorous sarcasm]
People's hatred of Trump perverts their sense of reality.
I.E.
Emotionalism bad.
Rationalism good.
16 Sep 2021, 7:08 pm
Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war.
True ... just a senseless coup attempt.-There was no coup, and there was no "coup attempt".
-There was no insurrection.
-There was no insurrection attempt.
-There is no evidence, whatsoever, of an organised attempt at overthrowing the newly elected government.
-The violent protest at Capitol Hill had zero chance of doing that.
-The election results had already been digitally archived.
-The violent protest was a show of disapproval.
-Trump wanted to postpone the inevitable, through Pence who had too much integrity to play Trump's tantrum game.
-Trump failed pathetically, and it cost him politically.
Dem's the facts, Jack.
17 Sep 2021, 2:46 pm
17 Sep 2021, 2:48 pm
17 Sep 2021, 3:10 pm
17 Sep 2021, 6:29 pm
Fnord wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....he set a dangerous precedent.
If Milley gets off he will have set an incredibly dangerous precedent.The Uniform Code of Military Justice requires officers to disobey unlawful orders. Starting a global thermonuclear war under the existing circumstances would violate UCMJ requirements that the use of force must be proportionate in the service of military necessity. Having a hissy-fit because you lost a fair and honest election does not constitute "military necessity", and would constitute a Crime Against Humanity -- an unlawful order. If Trump had given the order to perform a pre-emptive strike against China, that would have been an unlawful order, which no one would be in the wrong to disobey. Anyone carrying out such an order would be a war criminal of a greater magnitude than those convicted at the Nuremburg Trials.
The appropriateness of Milley’s call to China’s Li depends on what was said and not that the call itself was made. If what Gen Milley said on January 8, 2021 was something like "General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.", then he said nothing treasonous or illegal.
(Besides, even if a war with China had been declared by this time, anyone who has undergone training in military strategy and tactics would know that deceiving the enemy is essential to victory.)
If Milley simply reassured his counterpart, in a room full of other officials that was very much on the record, that the U.S. had no intention of starting a war with China, it's not only acceptable but appropriate to the situation.
And no mere armchair lawyer can change that.
I agree with much of what you have said, but I reject your premise that Trump was prepared to start a war with China.
As people continuously have been saying, Trump was *anti-war*.
This is supported by his decision making throughout his Presidency.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,389
Location: Long Island, New York
17 Sep 2021, 7:03 pm
Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war. General Milley committed treason.
These other Presidents lit fires. Trump “played with fire”. On the surface lit fires are worse then potential ones. Wars with the Taliban, Saddam etc are much less “fire” then
potential “fires” with North Korea or China could have been. Who was engaging in riskier behavior is a judgment call based on a hypothetical.
Trump took America out of the Syrian War, avoided a showdown with Iran, prepared to leave Afghanistan, literally shook hands with the North Korean Leader.
Yes, these are the signs of a warmonger. [humorous sarcasm]
People's hatred of Trump perverts their sense of reality.
I.E.
Emotionalism bad.
Rationalism good.
Never worried about him being a warmonger. I worried about impulsiveness.
17 Sep 2021, 7:21 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war. General Milley committed treason.
These other Presidents lit fires. Trump “played with fire”. On the surface lit fires are worse then potential ones. Wars with the Taliban, Saddam etc are much less “fire” then
potential “fires” with North Korea or China could have been. Who was engaging in riskier behavior is a judgment call based on a hypothetical.
Trump took America out of the Syrian War, avoided a showdown with Iran, prepared to leave Afghanistan, literally shook hands with the North Korean Leader.
Yes, these are the signs of a warmonger. [humorous sarcasm]
People's hatred of Trump perverts their sense of reality.
I.E.
Emotionalism bad.
Rationalism good.
Never worried about him being a warmonger. I worried about impulsiveness.
I think that was my main worry, the impulsiveness. I did not believe he always understood the havoc he was wreaking. He was very pro "disruption," but that looks very different on an international stage where leaders move around men and war machines than it does in the business world.
17 Sep 2021, 9:05 pm
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