General Milley tried to stop Trump from starting war

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Fnord
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15 Sep 2021, 3:25 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Aww ... c'mon ... tell us how you believe that General Milley is just as big a traitor as Julian Assange ...

Assange was never a US citizen, and thus cannot be a traitor.

Aww ... busted on a technicality! Seriously, how can any reasonable person consider General Milley to be a criminal, and not Julian Assange (or vice-versa)?

You used the term "traitor." It's not a technicality, it's a term that cannot be applied to Julian Assange.

Again ... General Milley or Julian Assange ... both criminals, or neither?

Neither if they both acted on what they believed was morally correct.

That only addresses intent, and thus the degree of the (alleged) crimes. It is the law that determines criminality

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VegetableMan
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15 Sep 2021, 3:30 pm

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Aww ... c'mon ... tell us how you believe that General Milley is just as big a traitor as Julian Assange ...

Assange was never a US citizen, and thus cannot be a traitor.

Aww ... busted on a technicality! Seriously, how can any reasonable person consider General Milley to be a criminal, and not Julian Assange (or vice-versa)?

You used the term "traitor." It's not a technicality, it's a term that cannot be applied to Julian Assange.

Again ... General Milley or Julian Assange ... both criminals, or neither?

Neither if they both acted on what they believed was morally correct.

That only addresses intent, and thus the degree of the (alleged) crimes. It is the law that determines criminality

Sure. But do you believe that all laws are "morally correct?"

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aghogday
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15 Sep 2021, 4:04 pm

We LiVE iN A Country Where
78 Percent of Republicans

Still Believe The Big

Lie That The Election

Was/Is Stolen From Trump

In The Most Secure Election
America Has Ever Executed
By Study of Trump's Own Officials...

The War May

Never End

In 'The

Legend'

Only in
Minds oF iGNoRaNCE...

Never the Less, This Ignorance
Is the Minority of the United States

Consisting Of Less Than 20 Percent of the Electorate

Yet Enough to Entertain A Failed Insurrection on 1/6...

To Overthrow

The Democratic

Electing Process for
A Free Nation to Even Exist...

Modern Civil Wars Are Not Fought

With Guns In the United States; They Are Fought With Ignorance
Holding Hands With Lies As Thankfully Mostly Solo Mental Masturbation...

Yes, Sadly Except Now In
Small Skirmishes, True

And Deadly Ones
Indeed Making
Laws Against
Mandates
to Protect
Unvaccinated
Children With
Masks in Heights
Still Of Most Deadly
Pandemic Variant
Disease in 'Florida
Man DeSaTaNiS State'...

And Yes, Several Similar State
Governments of Pandemic Ignorance...

Yes, Like Insurrections Before
That Failed Then and Making
Little Girls Carry Daddy's Rape
Baby to Term in Baby Daddy
States of Ignorance Now too; Yet

Again, Despicable

Leaders and

Minion
Follow

Are Nothing
New in Any Area
Of Historic Human Rule...

If You Don't Believe me,
Hehe, Watch 'The Movie' Again...

Yet, At Least In 'The Movie' in School AND CHURCH 'They' Didn't
Expose Innocent Children by Law More to Pandemic Disease...

Not Everyone Believes in Despicable Leaders and Not Everyone

Does the

Minion
Dance

And Song
On Puppet
Strings of

'Superior Ignorance'...

Again, If THere Is Any Good
News, It Is That The Majority And
Rule, Still Ain't Lost Some Element Of Truth...

As Gavin Newsom Beat An Attempt to Over-Turn
Covid-19 Delta Variant Protection By A Landslide In California

Last Night...

Which May

Indeed

Foreshadow

Other Coming

Results of Elections

In The Future As Not Everyone

Is Part of Cults That Worship Death

Like the Evangelical Christian Way of

Let's Vote Trump To Usher in the
End of the World

So Jesus

Will

Be Happy
to Return
to Send Their
Enemies Straight to Hell

And Torture Them Forever in 'Perfect Merciless

Unforgiving Hate'; Thing is 'They' Are Already Left Right Behind...

In Fruits

oF iGNorance...

Considering Neuroscience
Suggests Humans Generate
Their Reality Like Hallucinations
Based On Previous Experiences
of Hallucinations They Co-Create

Is This All

Any

Surprise: NO.

The Human Experience
Will Be Dreamy Heaven
On Earth Or Literal Hell
Fire on Earth too; Depends

On What 'They' Wanna
Hallucinate into Fruition
Now; Dreams of Heaven or
Nightmares of Hell For ReaL ON EartH...

We Are Basically the Same Classically Evolved Human
Species As We Were 10's of Thousands Of Years Ago;

Whatever We've Done in the Past We Have the

Potential for Now and

Fortunately Good

News too;

Better

Dreams
And New Colors
Of Heaven Now True...

Sticks And Carrots...
Sticks and Carrots...

That's Still What's Down
And Up 'Doc' With the 'Human Condition'...

As 'The Rabbit Holes' Are Still Rather SHaLLoW iN Ignorance...

'General Milley' Is More oF A 'Real Man'; Not What 'Little Men'

In the

'Ignorant
Minority'

Are Able to
Appreciate
As Much 'These Days' still...

Honor And Truth iN LiGHT
Before Loyalty to 'The Fallen'

In
DarK
oF False Lies...

_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick

DW_a_mom
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15 Sep 2021, 4:13 pm

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Aww ... c'mon ... tell us how you believe that General Milley is just as big a traitor as Julian Assange ...

Assange was never a US citizen, and thus cannot be a traitor.

Aww ... busted on a technicality! Seriously, how can any reasonable person consider General Milley to be a criminal, and not Julian Assange (or vice-versa)?

You used the term "traitor." It's not a technicality, it's a term that cannot be applied to Julian Assange.

Again ... General Milley or Julian Assange ... both criminals, or neither?

Neither if they both acted on what they believed was morally correct.

That only addresses intent, and thus the degree of the (alleged) crimes. It is the law that determines criminality

Given the law question was tripping over the citizen question, and the press to answer became more theoretical, I think VegetableMan gave a solid answer, and I actually commend him for being willing to say it.

I truly believe General Miley was trying to defend the interests of our country against the whims of a man he was felt was driven more by petty jealousies than any thoughtful position on international affairs.

It isn’t treason if he had the legal authority to do so, but that step takes me out my ability to post with certainty. I believe he had the authority, but I do not know he had the authority. He has struck me as man who knows how to walk a very fine line, but that is just opinion.

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DW_a_mom
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15 Sep 2021, 4:20 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.

Nobody in the Deep State wanted Trump because he campaigned on an anti-war platform. They didn't think he would support the MIC as vigorously as past presidents like Obama, Bush, and Clinton.

I take Milley's comments with a huge grain of salt, given he has served the war machine very well, and will probably go on to line his pockets working for a defense contractor after he retires. He needs to distance himself from Trump.

Trump is a doughebag, but I'd have to read the general's book and follow the citations to make up my mind on this.

The problem with deep state theories is that they are just too convenient. Clearly any time there are large institutions there is incredible momentum that ensures their survival, overcoming that momentum is nearly impossible, and the momentum will taint the judgement of those inside the institutions. I don’t want to discount that. But the people inside these institutions are still individuals, each with their own thoughts, priorities and ideals. The people I personally know in government are all idealists, interested in serving the best interests of their country above all else. To reach Miley’s level he will obviously have had to mixed in a whole lot of pragmatic political gamesmanship, but he is still a unique individual with his own mind.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 15 Sep 2021, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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15 Sep 2021, 4:28 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Fnord wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Again ... General Milley or Julian Assange ... both criminals, or neither?

Neither if they both acted on what they believed was morally correct.

That only addresses intent, and thus the degree of the (alleged) crimes. It is the law that determines criminality.

Given the law question was tripping over the citizen question, and the press to answer became more theoretical, I think VegetableMan gave a solid answer, and I actually commend him for being willing to say it. I truly believe General Miley was trying to defend the interests of our country against the whims of a man he was felt was driven more by petty jealousies than any thoughtful position on international affairs. It isn’t treason if he had the legal authority to do so, but that step takes me out my ability to post with certainty. I believe he had the authority, but I do not know he had the authority. He has struck me as man who knows how to walk a very fine line, but that is just opinion.

Since you put it that way, I can go along with it. General Milley acted on the authority entrusted in him: "... I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic ...". Note the word "domestic", which includes despotic narcissists with more concern for their own reputations that for the health and safety of the American people.

"... I will obey the orders of the president of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice...". Note the phrase regarding regulations and the UCMJ. The only time when disobeying an order is excusable is when that order is unlawful (UCMJ Art. 91 & 92). Deploying nuclear weapons in a time of peace is unlawful. General Milley therefore acted lawfully.

I took the same oath, and I take it seriously, whether the enemy is a foreign journalist or a head of state; and I support someone who averts an unnecessary "First Strike" with nuclear weapons by an obviously irrational and unstable leader who believes everyone else is out to get him.

As a side note, the military oath never expires, even after a military member separates from the military.

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VegetableMan
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15 Sep 2021, 6:24 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.

So...there are good people within a corrupt, rigged system that are "unique " and pragmatic. I'm sure that will serve us well as the country circles the drain.

It's interesting that anybody who takes on Trump is immediately given saint status and given a pass for all their crimes.

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Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 7:06 pm

Fnord wrote:

General Milley is a true American.

Trump just wanted to watch the world burn.

Based on what I have seen reported, I think Milley went "a bridge too far", but it isn't a black&white situation.
I am waiting for more information to come in before making a firm opinion.
An open mind is a happy mind.

BTW, I did say that the "insurrection" protest was never going to succeed in over-throwing the government because the orange man didn't have the backing of the military powers.

Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 7:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.

Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon".

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military.

Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 7:11 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

I lived in fear during Trump’s entire term that he would launch a temper tantrum war.

Ultimately, your fear was unjustified.
I think you were too close to the situation.

kraftiekortie
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15 Sep 2021, 7:14 pm

It was more than a protest----that's for sure.

The "protestors" did at least a few millions dollars of damage to the Capitol.

They went in with rope which is used, usually, to climb mountains. Do you find rope like this during a protest march? They also bought all sorts of weapons.

And the timing corresponded with the day where the final results of elections are announced and confirmed. They did not want Biden to be announced as the winner of the election.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Sep 2021, 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 7:14 pm

Fnord wrote:

I feel concern that my MAGA-hat wearing neighbors will one day carry out their threats to hang anyone who did not vote for Trump.

Quote:

Antifa Protester Implicated in Killing of Trump Supporter in Oregon

https://www.voanews.com/usa/race-americ ... ter-oregon

Anyone know how this turned out?

Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 7:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I have consistently called it a "Violent protest/riot".
Surely you must have seen one of my posts?

Who are "they"?
Are you saying that all protestors had the intention of violence?
Are you suggesting most?
I think it is more accurate to say there were a number of extremists, as was the case of the BLM violent protests which caused b,b,b,billions of dollars damage.

Also, there was at least one antifa infiltrator/agitator in the group of republicans.
Would you like me to dig up his picture again?
It is hilarious.
In his mugshot, he looks like a stunned mullet.

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15 Sep 2021, 7:28 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.

Nobody in the Deep State wanted Trump because he campaigned on an anti-war platform. They didn't think he would support the MIC as vigorously as past presidents like Obama, Bush, and Clinton.

I take Milley's comments with a huge grain of salt, given he has served the war machine very well, and will probably go on to line his pockets working for a defense contractor after he retires. He needs to distance himself from Trump.

Trump is a doughebag, but I'd have to read the general's book and follow the citations to make up my mind on this.

Trump was an experiment that went wrong, and in hindsight, did American social harmony a big disservice.
But he was totally anti-war and wanted to focus on making America great again through economic recovery, rather than military might.
The idea that trump wanted a kinetic war with China is simply absurd, imo.

kraftiekortie
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15 Sep 2021, 7:29 pm

What is most problematic----is that they bought rope. Rope is used to hang people.

Who brings rope to a "regular" protest?

I feel like most of the people in the Capitol got sort of "caught up in the moment." Some of them were taking selfies. Some of the Capitol Police were taking selfies with them.

But there were enough people with more than usual evil intent in the Capitol for it to be a VERY dangerous situation.

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15 Sep 2021, 7:31 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

So...there are good people within a corrupt, rigged system that are "unique " and pragmatic. I'm sure that will serve us well as the country circles the drain.

It's interesting that anybody who takes on Trump is immediately given saint status and given a pass for all their crimes.

Hyperpartisanship is a biatch.

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General Milley tried to stop Trump from starting war