General Milley tried to stop Trump from starting war

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kraftiekortie
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15 Sep 2021, 7:34 pm

Trump wanted to run the country like he runs his business organization.

He wanted to isolate the United States from the world, and to promote the United States as a superior entity.

He wanted to subvert the constitution. and acquire dictatorial powers for himself.

I'm glad he lost. Otherwise, things would be much crazier right now.



TheRobotLives
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15 Sep 2021, 7:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Deploying nuclear weapons in a time of peace is unlawful. 

George Bush showed us that it's legal for a president to go to war with anyone at anytime.


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kraftiekortie
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15 Sep 2021, 8:04 pm

Yep....he set a dangerous precedent.



Pepe
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15 Sep 2021, 9:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump wanted to run the country like he runs his business organization.

He wanted to isolate the United States from the world, and to promote the United States as a superior entity.

He wanted to subvert the constitution. and acquire dictatorial powers for himself.

I'm glad he lost. Otherwise, things would be much crazier right now.


I agree with most of what you have said. 8)



ASPartOfMe
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16 Sep 2021, 12:51 am

Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I lived in fear during Trump’s entire term that he would launch a temper tantrum war.


Ultimately, your fear was unjustified.
I think you were too close to the situation.

Because of people like Milley who were willing to reign him in. OTOH what Milley did was “a bridge too far”. If Trump did order a first strike and the Chinese had advance notice due to Milley the Chinese would have struck first killing millions upon millions of Americans that might have not died if the Chinese not had advance warning.


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16 Sep 2021, 1:14 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I lived in fear during Trump’s entire term that he would launch a temper tantrum war.


Ultimately, your fear was unjustified.
I think you were too close to the situation.

Because of people like Milley who were willing to reign him in. OTOH what Milley did was “a bridge too far”. If Trump did order a first strike and the Chinese had advance notice due to Milley the Chinese would have struck first killing millions upon millions of Americans that might have not died if the Chinese not had advance warning.


Treasonist, yes.
Hardly American patriotism.
But I suspect it was only lip service to pacify. 8)



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16 Sep 2021, 2:15 am

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Sep 2021, 2:25 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.

Lack of military backing is one reason it was a failed insurrection.


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DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 2:33 am

VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Nobody in the Deep State wanted Trump because he campaigned on an anti-war platform. They didn't think he would support the MIC as vigorously as past presidents like Obama, Bush, and Clinton.

I take Milley's comments with a huge grain of salt, given he has served the war machine very well, and will probably go on to line his pockets working for a defense contractor after he retires. He needs to distance himself from Trump.

Trump is a doughebag, but I'd have to read the general's book and follow the citations to make up my mind on this.


The problem with deep state theories is that they are just too convenient. Clearly any time there are large institutions there is incredible momentum that ensures their survival, overcoming that momentum is nearly impossible, and the momentum will taint the judgement of those inside the institutions. I don’t want to discount that. But the people inside these institutions are still individuals, each with their own thoughts, priorities and ideals. The people I personally know in government are all idealists, interested in serving the best interests of their country above all else. To reach Miley’s level he will obviously have had to mixed in a whole lot of pragmatic political gamesmanship, but he is still a unique individual with his own mind.


So...there are good people within a corrupt, rigged system that are "unique " and pragmatic. I'm sure that will serve us well as the country circles the drain.

It's interesting that anybody who takes on Trump is immediately given saint status and given a pass for all their crimes.


Hm, who is giving who saint status and what crimes are being given a pass?

What I was attempting to temper is your assumption that someone can’t be trusted solely because they’ve made a career in government. That assumption is, based on the people I personally know, highly erroneous.

Nor did I call the system corrupt or rigged. I said there is momentum that insures it’s survival, and that the momentum is tough to overcome, but I never said the situation is or has to be inherently corrupt or rigged. Think of a truck trying to stop on the freeway. The fact that it can’t stop and maneuver quickly isn’t because the breaks are faulty or the driver is unskilled, it’s because of physics.

As I said, deep state conspiracy theories are too convenient. To continue with my analogy, no one likes to be on the highway surrounded by big trucks; it’s scary. But in general the trucks and their drivers aren’t conspiring to hurt anyone; they are just doing their jobs.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 16 Sep 2021, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 2:39 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.


You keep on "talking" to me.
Why do you do that? :scratch:
Is it my masculine musk? :mrgreen:

Bottom line, and read my lips:
"It didn't happen!"



Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 2:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.

Lack of military backing is one reason it was a failed insurrection.


It was never an "insurrection". <pout>



DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 2:48 am

Pepe wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.


You keep on "talking" to me.
Why do you do that? :scratch:
Is it my masculine musk? :mrgreen:

Bottom line, and read my lips:
"It didn't happen!"


When roughly half the posts on a page are yours, it is fairly well impossible not to talk to you.

As for reading lips, I trust my sources that have studied and followed US political history their entire adult lives, and that read the White House Friday evening news dumps directly from the source.


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Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 3:30 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Totally agreed.
A rather large "cannon". 8O

He would never have been able to create an "insurrection", even if he wanted one, because he didn't have the backing of the military. 8)


The lack of military backing wasn’t for lack of trying. Late in his presidency he did extensive firing and shifting at the pentagon, trying to place loyalists everywhere he could. The volume was unusual enough to garner some decent speculation among the more intellectual pundits on what he might be up to.


You keep on "talking" to me.
Why do you do that? :scratch:
Is it my masculine musk? :mrgreen:

Bottom line, and read my lips:
"It didn't happen!"


When roughly half the posts on a page are yours, it is fairly well impossible not to talk to you.


I virtually always skip over your posts that are not directed at me, and I do the same with some others.
Not hard.
Just takes a little emotional discipline. 8)

DW_a_mom wrote:
As for reading lips, I trust my sources that have studied and followed US political history their entire adult lives, and that read the White House Friday evening news dumps directly from the source.


You keep on presenting your credentials.
That doesn't mean much to me.
It is your arguments that is the important thing to consider.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression it annoys you how I don't take your opinions as seriously as you want me to.
This is part of the reason for our personality conflict, no offence.

Let us keep our dialogue to a minimum.
"Have a nice day." 8)



DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 3:59 am

^^^ A note on my posting style: I’m not always taking to anyone in particular, and may just be following the direction of a new tangent I find interesting. That is true even when I quote a post.

I fall back into trying to credential my information when I feel attacked, and not simply disagreed with. Bad habit, I should just walk away, but I’m human. Suggestion: don’t attack me by acting like I have no credibility.


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VegetableMan
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16 Sep 2021, 9:05 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump has always been seen as being a "loose cannon"----the Pentagon brass was decidedly against Trump's presidency.


Nobody in the Deep State wanted Trump because he campaigned on an anti-war platform. They didn't think he would support the MIC as vigorously as past presidents like Obama, Bush, and Clinton.

I take Milley's comments with a huge grain of salt, given he has served the war machine very well, and will probably go on to line his pockets working for a defense contractor after he retires. He needs to distance himself from Trump.

Trump is a doughebag, but I'd have to read the general's book and follow the citations to make up my mind on this.


The problem with deep state theories is that they are just too convenient. Clearly any time there are large institutions there is incredible momentum that ensures their survival, overcoming that momentum is nearly impossible, and the momentum will taint the judgement of those inside the institutions. I don’t want to discount that. But the people inside these institutions are still individuals, each with their own thoughts, priorities and ideals. The people I personally know in government are all idealists, interested in serving the best interests of their country above all else. To reach Miley’s level he will obviously have had to mixed in a whole lot of pragmatic political gamesmanship, but he is still a unique individual with his own mind.


So...there are good people within a corrupt, rigged system that are "unique " and pragmatic. I'm sure that will serve us well as the country circles the drain.

It's interesting that anybody who takes on Trump is immediately given saint status and given a pass for all their crimes.


Hm, who is giving who saint status and what crimes are being given a pass?

What I was attempting to temper is your assumption that someone can’t be trusted solely because they’ve made a career in government. That assumption is, based on the people I personally know, highly erroneous.

Nor did I call the system corrupt or rigged. I said there is momentum that insures it’s survival, and that the momentum is tough to overcome, but I never said the situation is or has to be inherently corrupt or rigged. Think of a truck trying to stop on the freeway. The fact that it can’t stop and maneuver quickly isn’t because the breaks are faulty or the driver is unskilled, it’s because of physics.

As I said, deep state conspiracy theories are too convenient. To continue with my analogy, no one likes to be on the highway surrounded by big trucks; it’s scary. But in general the trucks and their drivers aren’t conspiring to hurt anyone; they are just doing their jobs.


This has nothing do do with conspiracy theories, rather suspicion over something that has yet to proven. Even if thete are "good people " with a corrupt system, it really doesn't matter. They are still perpetuating it.

Am I supposed to just listen to people are habitual liars for the corporate state?


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16 Sep 2021, 10:12 am

Trump was the only president in recent history that didn't get us tangled up in another senseless war. General Milley committed treason.