What are the Democrats going to do about welfare?

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Pepe
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17 Sep 2021, 9:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Right now, its a "tie" in the Senate, with the Vice President (a Democrat) having the power to break the "tie."

Most of the time, though, in a practical sense, because of parliamentary procedure or whatever, it takes about a 60-40 Democratic majority for anything the Democrats want to be passed by the Senate.

Anything "liberal" happens to be opposed by a minority of Democrats----but enough so that the passing of "liberal" measures is problematic.


And yet Joe Biden is making massive legislative changes due to his position as President?
An "Interesting" system.

If this is correct, what stops him from improving the welfare system?



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17 Sep 2021, 9:05 am

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Right now, its a "tie" in the Senate, with the Vice President (a Democrat) having the power to break the "tie."  Most of the time, though, in a practical sense, because of parliamentary procedure or whatever, it takes about a 60-40 Democratic majority for anything the Democrats want to be passed by the Senate.  Anything "liberal" happens to be opposed by a minority of Democrats----but enough so that the passing of "liberal" measures is problematic.
And yet Joe Biden is making massive legislative changes due to his position as President?  An "Interesting" system.  If this is correct, what stops him from improving the welfare system?
Republicans and Republican-voting Democrats in the Senate.  While there may technically be a "tie" by the numbers, this is in name only as long as Manchin and Sinema hold office.


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kraftiekortie
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17 Sep 2021, 9:08 am

The President, unless he makes an "executive order," cannot enact a law without the consent of both houses of Congress. If he were able to do that, he would be a dictator. Most potential items of law cannot be covered under an "executive order." We happen to live in a democracy, no matter how flawed it is.

I'm not actually sure about Biden's commitment to "welfare."

One thing to remember: Franklin Roosevelt wasn't really into "welfare," either, as a permanent solution. His desire was for people to get back to work, not sponge off the government.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Sep 2021, 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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17 Sep 2021, 9:08 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Biden is a centrist Democrat. He's a Washington "insider." He's a politician. He's not perfect. He's a backroom dealmaker.

But no matter how "senile" or "sleepy" he's supposed to be, I feel like his heart is in the right place as far as COVID is concerned.


I move from liking Uncle Joe to being concerned about his mental faculties.
I am liking what I see atm, because of the AUKUS alliance.

But getting back to welfare, where does Biden sit?

Blabs constantly blames the Republicans for the unfair system for the poor.
I gather you don't totally agree with that?



kraftiekortie
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17 Sep 2021, 9:12 am

It's way more complex than that....

The main problem with welfare is that it could become a "way of life" for people who are actually capable of working.

Welfare is needed when people are down on their luck---but incentive to work is also needed for those who are capable of working.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Sep 2021, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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17 Sep 2021, 9:14 am

The most powerful tool any President has is the Veto.  With the stroke of a pen, any president can deny the passage of a bill into law, except when Congress has enough votes to over-ride the veto.


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kraftiekortie
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17 Sep 2021, 9:17 am

To override a veto, there must be a 2/3's majority for the override. In other words, 67 Senators must vote for the override, and 291 members of the House of Representative must vote for the override.



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17 Sep 2021, 9:19 am

It is all there in our Constitution, Pepe.  I suggest you obtain a copy and read it.


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17 Sep 2021, 9:25 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I look at the person, not the political party.

I'm not a registered Democrat.

Edward Koch, Democrat, who was a mayor of New York City, was quite liberal in his younger days; as he grew older, though, he became increasingly pragmatic; many of the measures he took were actually rather conservative.


I miss that guy.


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17 Sep 2021, 9:26 am

Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Right now, its a "tie" in the Senate, with the Vice President (a Democrat) having the power to break the "tie."  Most of the time, though, in a practical sense, because of parliamentary procedure or whatever, it takes about a 60-40 Democratic majority for anything the Democrats want to be passed by the Senate.  Anything "liberal" happens to be opposed by a minority of Democrats----but enough so that the passing of "liberal" measures is problematic.
And yet Joe Biden is making massive legislative changes due to his position as President?  An "Interesting" system.  If this is correct, what stops him from improving the welfare system?
Republicans and Republican-voting Democrats in the Senate.  While there may technically be a "tie" by the numbers, this is in name only as long as Manchin and Sinema hold office.


More often than not, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski vote with the Dems on a lot of things.


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Fnord
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17 Sep 2021, 9:31 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Right now, its a "tie" in the Senate, with the Vice President (a Democrat) having the power to break the "tie."  Most of the time, though, in a practical sense, because of parliamentary procedure or whatever, it takes about a 60-40 Democratic majority for anything the Democrats want to be passed by the Senate.  Anything "liberal" happens to be opposed by a minority of Democrats----but enough so that the passing of "liberal" measures is problematic.
And yet Joe Biden is making massive legislative changes due to his position as President?  An "Interesting" system.  If this is correct, what stops him from improving the welfare system?
Republicans and Republican-voting Democrats in the Senate.  While there may technically be a "tie" by the numbers, this is in name only as long as Manchin and Sinema hold office.
More often than not, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski vote with the Dems on a lot of things.
Even so, it does not matter, like when two separate Articles of Impeachment got voted down in the Senate.

I tell you, we are still at an impasse here.


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Mr Reynholm
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17 Sep 2021, 9:39 am

Although the Republicans have more senators the Democrats have control of the senate
Source senate.gov

117th Congress (2021–2023)
Majority Party: Democrats (48 seats)
Minority Party: Republicans (50 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100

Note: From January 3, 2021, to January 20, 2021, party division stood at 51 Republicans, 46 Democrats, 2 Independents (who caucused with the Democrats), and 1 vacancy. Both Senate seats in Georgia were up for election in 2020—the Class 2 seat held by Senator David Perdue, and the Class 3 seat held by appointed senator Kelly Loeffler (special election). No candidate in either race won a majority (50%+) as required by Georgia State law, forcing run-off elections for both seats held on January 5, 2021. Senator Perdue's term expired on January 3, 2021, resulting in a vacancy until the winner of the run-off election was sworn in. Democrats Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock defeated Perdue and Loeffler, respectively, in the run-off elections and were sworn in on January 20, bringing the party division to 50 Republicans, 48 Democrats, and 2 Independents (who caucus with the Democrats). Democrats hold the majority due to the tie-breaking vote of Vice President Kamala Harris.



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17 Sep 2021, 9:47 am

Democrats, technically, have control of the Senate because of the Vice President's "tie-breaking" power.

However, in practical terms, like Fnord said, it's pretty much of an "impasse."

In order for the Democrats to fully reap the benefits of this "control," they'd probably have to have about a 60-40 majority.



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17 Sep 2021, 11:27 am

What are the Democrats going to do about welfare?

Not much, certainly not enough. :nerdy:


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17 Sep 2021, 12:07 pm

With American politics the way they are right now, the Democrats are not going to touch welfare reform, for the same reason they really are not doing anything with law enforcement and criminal reforms that are desperately needed. The GOP is looking for any avenue to get their base going and if Biden or Congress did anything to expand welfare, we would be hearing about the welfare queens again.

From the looks of things, the current administration is looking more at putting people to work by creating jobs to fix our failing infrastructure but even that is tied up in politics. If the administration even tried welfare reform that was more expansive, it would not get anywhere anyways.

As for executive orders, those can only be done in areas where Congress has given the executive department free rein in making the rules. That is why Biden is using OSHA to force a vaccine mandate rather than a general mandate.



Pepe
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17 Sep 2021, 10:04 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's way more complex than that....

The main problem with welfare is that it could become a "way of life" for people who are actually capable of working.

Welfare is needed when people are down on their luck---but incentive to work is also needed for those who are capable of working.


That is a rational consideration that is evident here in Australia also.
But from what I have heard, over the years, is that the American healthcare system is draconian.

As I have previously mentioned, the Labor party tried on a scare campaign that the conservatives here were going to introduce an expensive American system.
Total bollocks, of cause.

I am not sure what to believe anymore, about America, however.