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Sean Connery’s James Bond a rapist says current director

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cyberdad
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20 Nov 2021, 3:05 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Bond franchise is becoming, if not is antiquated. People who watch and rent movies frequently skew young and are thus more likely to see Bond as sexist or worse. They are your current and future movie watchers. My guess is that the director was told or given permission by marketing to attempt to separate the Bond image from “your father’s Bond”


I don't know many young people interested in the Bond franchise anymore? it seems to attract older generations.



Bradleigh
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20 Nov 2021, 5:18 pm

ironpony wrote:
About the whole Bond being a rapist. It seems to me that this is possible in two of the movies, Goldfinger and Thunderball.

SPOILERS FROM THOSE MOVIES


But in Goldfinger, why didn't p**** Galore just knee Bond in the nuts if she really didn't want him? She seems to be an expert martial artist, and could have put up more of a fight, so is this inconsistent with her character, if she didn't want it?

Also, in Thunderball, the woman who was blackmailed by Bond into having sex was totally into it, because she was all over Bond after, even though she was blackmailed. So she was turned on by the blackmail and found it naughty, hot and arousing. So is it really rape if the women responded positively? Now it's a perfectly legit argument that the woman would not realistically respond positively.

But does in the context of those movies, is it really rape or is it just unrealistically written women more so? Also, I watched Goldfinger with my gf and she was really turned on by the rape scene, and wanted to have sex after. So is it really that bad by today's standards if a modern woman like my gf was turned on by it? Perhaps women can get into James Bond too, and it's just a fantasy to have fun with and is not meant as realistic?


Okay, I just want to highlight that this comment by ironpony is kind of super messed up. It is not okay to comment that a woman that was raped should have done something like fight back someone if she did not want to be sexually assaulted. And also not okay to say that someone was not sexually assaulted because they appeared to enjoy some aspect of the act during that time, because saying that they liked it despite being coerced is not the same thing as active consent.

The fact that these aspects might be argued back is what makes the hero of a movie doing these things all the more nefarious. That some dude will say that "she would have hit me if she didn't really want it, or she moaned or something so she did want it". No comment on reports of people being turned on from scenes of forced naughties, because people are allowed to enjoy fantasies that might be less than healthy if real.


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ironpony
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20 Nov 2021, 8:40 pm

I'm not saying ALL WOMEN should fight back, but p**** Galore was a martial arts expert who was fighting Bond just a few seconds ago, so it seems to me that she would have done something if she didn't want it. I am not saying all women should fight back, and I am just saying if she didn't want it, then it is inconsistent with her character then for not using any type of martial arts to get out of it.

But also, me and a gf had a verbal argument once, and I grabbed her and kissed her and she kissed me back and she was into it then for example. I don't think that counts as rape, does it? Kind of similar to Goldfinger, but a verbal argument instead of a physical one. But that doesn't make it rape for me, does it?



cyberdad
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20 Nov 2021, 8:44 pm

ironpony wrote:
I'm not saying ALL WOMEN should fight back, but p**** Galore was a martial arts expert who was fighting Bond just a few seconds ago, so it seems to me that she would have done something if she didn't want it.


Just the name itself is a little cringey in 2021. The character of Bond (as an alpha male) was expected to aggressively take charge to initiate sex which was culturally acceptable way for a male to behave with a female in the 1950s/60s.



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20 Nov 2021, 8:47 pm

Is the name really that offensive though? If it were the opposite and you have a female action hero, with a love interest name Dick Galore, I wouldn't be offended, but I guess that's just me :) .



cyberdad
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20 Nov 2021, 8:52 pm

ironpony wrote:
Is the name really that offensive though? If it were the opposite and you have a female action hero, with a love interest name Dick Galore, I wouldn't be offended, but I guess that's just me :) .


Believe me, it's offensive.



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21 Nov 2021, 12:13 am

But the movie is meant to be dumb fun though that is entertainment and is not meant to de a deep philosophical political statement on life. Can't moviegoers just separate fantasy from reality and have fun?



cyberdad
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21 Nov 2021, 12:24 am

ironpony wrote:
But the movie is meant to be dumb fun though that is entertainment and is not meant to de a deep philosophical political statement on life. Can't moviegoers just separate fantasy from reality and have fun?


It was mean't to be dumb fun (yes) but for 1959 when the novel was written and in 1964 when the movie was released.
I understand an Austin Powers "type" flick could get away with such caricatures but only if it specifically caricatures/parody's the Bond type of films (Which Austin Powers was at great pains to emphasise so as not to cross the line).



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21 Nov 2021, 12:32 am

Yeah. And I am not saying that Goldfinger is not a problematic movie, sure it is, but I think some people of today's generation need to just be entertained by it and some maybe should take a chill pill? I mean people I know of today's generation are shocked at it, but you wonder, what kind of safe movies are people watching today, if this is shocking to them...



cyberdad
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21 Nov 2021, 1:50 am

ironpony wrote:
Yeah. And I am not saying that Goldfinger is not a problematic movie, sure it is, but I think some people of today's generation need to just be entertained by it and some maybe should take a chill pill? I mean people I know of today's generation are shocked at it, but you wonder, what kind of safe movies are people watching today, if this is shocking to them...


I actually think most of the younger generation don't really care. There's worse stuff online.



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21 Nov 2021, 2:15 am

"The problem is the fan base can't distinguish real life from fiction/fantasy"

you're thinking of SW fanboys or crybabies who cant comprehend that Bruce Lee hooked on coke and cheating , its a form of retardation , these fans are essentially pinheads

He never raped Galore , if he had attempted that shed kick him in the nuts or slapped him , also the masseuse in TB wasnt blackmailed to anything



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21 Nov 2021, 3:18 am

collectoritis wrote:
He never raped Galore , if he had attempted that shed kick him in the nuts or slapped him , also the masseuse in TB wasnt blackmailed to anything


It's a matter of perception, I watched most of the older Bond movies and never once thought he was being a rapist. Yes he imposed himself on many of the women but then you would hear "Oh James" followed by moaning/kissing.



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21 Nov 2021, 3:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Bond franchise is becoming, if not is antiquated. People who watch and rent movies frequently skew young and are thus more likely to see Bond as sexist or worse. They are your current and future movie watchers. My guess is that the director was told or given permission by marketing to attempt to separate the Bond image from “your father’s Bond”


I don't know many young people interested in the Bond franchise anymore? it seems to attract older generations.


That is all very true.

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Is the name really that offensive though? If it were the opposite and you have a female action hero, with a love interest name Dick Galore, I wouldn't be offended, but I guess that's just me :) .


Believe me, it's offensive.


It a matter of perspective. What offensive to one, is humorous to another. You condfounding intrinsic qualities, with subjective experience.

cyberdad wrote:
collectoritis wrote:
He never raped Galore , if he had attempted that shed kick him in the nuts or slapped him , also the masseuse in TB wasnt blackmailed to anything


It's a matter of perception, I watched most of the older Bond movies and never once thought he was being a rapist. Yes he imposed himself on many of the women but then you would hear "Oh James" followed by moaning/kissing.


I enjoyed all the bond movies as a kid. Nobody ever objected to Bonds behavior. Everybody I ever knew, man, woman, child, anybody who ever watched them, always considered 007 nothing more than an amusing protagonist . It's just entertainment. :roll:


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cyberdad
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21 Nov 2021, 3:48 am

theprisoner wrote:
It a matter of perspective. What offensive to one, is humorous to another. You condfounding intrinsic qualities, with subjective experience.:


Sorry I mean't it's offensive to feminists. From my personal perspective it's a product of it's time



ironpony
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21 Nov 2021, 8:45 am

My gf, and also another gf I had years before, also think James Bond is hot though and are fans. So women think he is hot, can the character really be that bad for women?



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21 Nov 2021, 8:53 am

Image
What women find hot, and what is good for them are too entirely separate things.


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