i thought the cold war was over????

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US President George W Bush has said Russia has nothing to fear from a missile defence system to be built by the US, partly in eastern Europe.

Mr Bush said the Cold War was over and Russia was not an enemy of the US.

The president was speaking during a visit to the Czech Republic, en route to the G8 summit in Germany.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has threatened to aim weapons at Europe if the shield is set up, in comments seen as reminiscent of Cold War rhetoric.

Washington has dismissed talk of a new Cold War but says the language coming out of the Kremlin has worrying echoes of that era.

Co-operation call

In a news conference with the Czech president and prime minister, Mr Bush said the new system was a "purely defensive measure, aimed not at Russia but at true threats".

Washington wants to deploy interceptor rockets in Poland and a radar base in the Czech Republic to counter what it describes as a potential threat from "rogue states" such as Iran and North Korea.

He said he would invite Russia to cooperate with the US over the system. Mr Bush is expected to meet Mr Putin at the G8 summit in Germany on Wednesday.

"Russia is not our enemy," Mr Bush said.

"I look forward to having conversations with President Putin. My message will be - you should not fear the missile defence system.

"Why don't you cooperate on the missile defence system? Why don't you participate with the United States? Send your generals over to see how such a system would work, send your scientists."

But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dismissed the perceived threat from Iran and North Korea.

"What we all need is to join our efforts to fight real, not hypothetical, threats. And for this work, Russia is ready," he said, quoted by Reuters news agency.

'Khrushchev rhetoric'

On Sunday President Putin said Iran was not a threat to the US, hinting that Russia was the target of the new US system.

"If the American nuclear potential grows in European territory, we will have to have new targets in Europe," Mr Putin said.

Speaking on the way to Europe, Mr Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, said Mr Putin's remarks were "not helpful".

Nato spokesman James Appathurai described Mr Putin's words as "unwelcome", while new French President Nicolas Sarkozy said he would have "frank" talks with the Russian leader.

Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, meanwhile, said Mr Putin's comments were reminiscent of the Cold War rhetoric of Nikita Khrushchev, Soviet leader in the 1950s and 60s.

"This is language which has never been used by [Boris] Yeltsin, nor [Mikhail] Gorbachev and not even [Leonid] Brezhnev... This is the language of Khrushchev," he said.

Mr Putin's spokesman has since attempted to soothe the row, describing the comment as a "hypothetical" response to a "hypothetical" question.

Mr Putin issued his warning in an interview with foreign reporters ahead of the G8 meeting in Heiligendamm, Germany, on Wednesday.

He hoped US officials would change their minds about the missile plan, and said that if an arms race resulted it would not be Russia's fault.

Last week, Moscow announced it had tested a ballistic missile to maintain "strategic balance" in the world.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6721295.stm

Putin scares me, I don't trust him. For all his smiles and making friendly, I still remember he was a hard-line party member and head of the KGB.

same reasons why i don't trust bush sr or bush 1.7 (i'm convinced dubya is still in beta).

Putin is clearly the one doing the saber-rattling here. What sane leader could object to a purely defensive system?

The silence of Europeans at Putin's threat to target his nukes at Europe is nothing short of mind-boggling.

one might argue that any military movement could be taken as a threat. just look at china's recent defensive movements...we took that as a threat to us.


and i'm not familiar with the system enough to know how purely "defensive" it is.

The Cold War is over, it effectively ended during the second term of Ronald Reagan. Russia never, even during the days of Boris Yeltsin, became an all-out "ally" of the United States. The issue with the Strategic Defense Initiative has always been something that has caused friction between the US and Soviet Union/Russia. For the later stage Soviet Union, the prospect of an overly expensive missile defense system was never something they could easily counter due to their poor economic performance (the percentage of GDP that went to defense was much higher). It was a sort of unmovable object in negotiations between President Reagan and Premier Gorbachev. Both leaders of the time were willing to proceed with mammoth reductions in their respective nuclear arsenals, but at Reykjavik in Iceland, Gorbachev demanded that the US give up it's missile shield as part of any deal (he refusing an offer by the US to export the program to the USSR). Reagan, feeling that SDI potential defense against nuclear weapons, and doubtlessly aware of the economic pressure imposed by the mammoth program did not give in. Reagan and Gorbachev later came to significant, although less expansive, arms reductions agreements.

Questions were raised whether the United States would abrogate a portion of Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty as to begin the initial phase of the missile defense system. The programs developments required a decision towards the end of the Clinton administration, but as if often the case the leaving President left the decision up to the incoming administration. President George W. Bush, unsurprisingly since it was within the party platform, formally withdrew the signature from the detente-era ABM treaty.

Boris Yeltsin resigned on the 31st of December 1999, giving way to Vladimir Putin. Giving retrospect, it's seems likely he would have named a different successor (Yeltsin, along with Gorbachev would later criticize Putin's methods). Relations between the United States and Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union have essentially been one of competitors. For a time early in the Putin regime it appeared relations between Russia and the West generally might actually improve. Russia gained observer seat on NATO. However, Vladimir Putin clearly is not the bumbling democrat that his predecessor was. Where Yeltsin denounced the Communists, Putin has been toying with the idea of bringing the Stalin cult back (an idea considered and rejected by Brezhnev).

The George W. Bush Vladimir Putin relationship is a curious one. I wouldn't be a mistake to say that Bush misjudged Putin. He would be the latest in a long line of Western leaders to assume, based on a brief conversation, that they understood "the man." Bush was perhaps at a notable disadvantage in handling a man who not only an agent, but the head of the Secret Police. His own informal personal style, more adept in relations with a leader like Tony Blair, probably don't match up as well against someone well trained in manipulation.

Putin has been pressing the nationalist buttons hard, as every authoritarian leader needs too. Putin has the advantage of both being popular in his country, and having reduced the level of the popular dissent due to his own policies. George W. Bush, needless to say, does not have that advantage. Still, recently, Putin had to mollify his threats to this, that, or the other thing in the U.S. preceded on it's missile defense plan. This may be the result of a certain pragmatism.

In regards to the missile shield, I think it is a good idea to pursue offers by the Russians for placement of satellites for the shield in areas of their influence although very cautiously. The message must continued to be sent the missile shield is not designed as a threat to the Russians. Offers should continue to be made to export the shield as is practically possible (I remember reading recently a high ranking member of the Russian military expressed an interest in this, which is shift from outright refusal).

Last edited by jimservo on 26 Jul 2007, 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oh. Then why start a proselytizing thread where you draw conclusions if you're not sure of your facts?

so i can poll opinions from the board, gather facts, and generally exercise my inquisitive mind. duuuh.

Indeed.

I don't trust the missile system. It's probably just our way of trying to control the world even more than we already do.
"Defy us, and we'll blast you with our loads of missiles."
Missiles here, missiles there, missiles everywhere! Just like with our military. The USA is kind of like the world's military dictator, which is why I don't like this country.

I also read over 90% of the Czech public is against the missiles, but the bastard prime minister doesn't seem to care what they think.

you mean kinda like how the majority of americans are against the war in iraq but the bastard president doesn't seem to care and abuses executive power.

Pretty much.

Goldfinch?
Pretty.

Why point them at US? Its not OUR bloody system. Point em at the yanks if you want to threaten someone. Bah, tis not fair. Anyway, if anyone in the middle east got ICBMs on the go, why would they ever have to fire them over europe? The world is round, and america is a BIG target.

On a different note, it is nice to see someone tell America where to get off, and proves that they arent as all powerful as they would like to believe.

"We want to use your country for our missile defence system, because we are the saviours of mankind."

"No. Go stick it in South Korea or something."

Putin is indicative of a general cynical attitude of many people in position of power in Russia. They are merely looking out for number one. Yeltsin pushed through reforms too quickly and badly. These oligarchs are no better than Putin. They are all out for themselves too. It should have never given away so much too so few. Putin is a potential threat; we need to handle him carefully.