funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,496
Location: Right over your left shoulder
15 Oct 2021, 6:28 am
15 Oct 2021, 6:57 am
15 Oct 2021, 7:35 am
15 Oct 2021, 8:28 am
This whole Ivermectin "controversy" seems to define much of what is wrong with public discourse in our time.
Very few people seem to have considered ANYTHING about this beyond the headlines that align with their own "war camp" ideology.
It is especially irksome to me, given my very direct connection with the substance in question, and another "Horse medication", as well, and also the fact that I'm a fan of Rogan (though certainly not a "disciple" of the man).
Here I am (circled) at the Doug Stanhope 2016 Election Day "End of the World Podcast" at the Comedy Store, hosted by Rogan and others, as well...
Here's the link to the whole podcast mentioned above, for those of you who have Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1LBf9s ... BQBEurbRAA
Last edited by GadgetGuru on 15 Oct 2021, 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
15 Oct 2021, 8:33 am
15 Oct 2021, 8:37 am
15 Oct 2021, 8:56 am
15 Oct 2021, 9:00 am
15 Oct 2021, 9:41 am
The Nobel Prize for Ivermectin was awarded to William Campbell and and Satoshi Omura in 2015 for their research (under Merck Pharmaceuticals) which led to the elimination of Onchocerca volvulus (aka "river blindness"), a parasitic nematode which is transmitted to humans by black flies. A nematode is an animal, not a virus.
15 Oct 2021, 10:05 am
While I agree that both conservative and democratic news outlets make up ridiculous claims or sensational headlines in order to increase ratings, I still have my concerns about not only Ivermectin itself (being administered for COVID) but also an internet personality like Joe Rogan using his platform to encourage others place their trust in a potentially dangerous drug that has very little solid research to back it.
Rogan surely had proper access to doctors who could safely administer a dose during his infection, but not everyone has this. I personally know of several families in my area who are dosing their kids with Ivermectin from the local farm supply rather than vaccinating them. Just as a gauge of how common this is, farm supplies are running into Ivermectin shortages (and actual farmers are having trouble getting it). Dosing oneself and others is EXTREMELY risky, and cases of poisoning and organ damage are on the increase as a result (which of course puts even more strain on our taxed medical facilities right now).
This all being said, there are a LOT of flaws in the available research (this isn't to say that more research shouldn't be done on Ivermectin).
Problems that I can see at first glance:
1) Almost all of the "successful" studies (so far) have been performed in vitro (in a petri dish or outside of the organism, not inside the complex human body). From the study the OP linked above:
My point is that something works in a petri dish does not always always work well in the human body. Bleach would technically work when it comes to inhibiting a virus in a petri dish, but it would destroy cells in a human body. Biological conditions must be considered!
Note: I'm pretty sure the aforementioned study has been retracted from the scientific journal recently? I'll have to double check that here in a bit.
2) In these successful in vitro studies, large doses of ivermectin were required to inhibit the virus. Due to the complex delivery systems within the human body, an even larger (and potentially dangerous) dose would be necessary to see a similar effect. More studies would be necessary in order to find a safe method of delivery AND get the same efficacy.
3) The actual in vivo studies (in mice) relied on small sample sizes. These studies aren't conclusive and many required a LARGE dose (as expected) to yield any results.
Another note: I'm not an expert, and I have not read every research paper out there on Ivermectin. Feel free to update me if new data has been released. I'm just putting in my "two cents".
15 Oct 2021, 10:51 am
Rogan surely had proper access to doctors who could safely administer a dose during his infection, but not everyone has this. I personally know of several families in my area who are dosing their kids with Ivermectin from the local farm supply rather than vaccinating them. Just as a gauge of how common this is, farm supplies are running into Ivermectin shortages (and actual farmers are having trouble getting it). Dosing oneself and others is EXTREMELY risky, and cases of poisoning and organ damage are on the increase as a result (which of course puts even more strain on our taxed medical facilities right now).
This all being said, there are a LOT of flaws in the available research (this isn't to say that more research shouldn't be done on Ivermectin).
Problems that I can see at first glance:
1) Almost all of the "successful" studies (so far) have been performed in vitro (in a petri dish or outside of the organism, not inside the complex human body). From the study the OP linked above:
My point is that something works in a petri dish does not always always work well in the human body. Bleach would technically work when it comes to inhibiting a virus in a petri dish, but it would destroy cells in a human body. Biological conditions must be considered!
Note: I'm pretty sure the aforementioned study has been retracted from the scientific journal recently? I'll have to double check that here in a bit.
2) In these successful in vitro studies, large doses of ivermectin were required to inhibit the virus. Due to the complex delivery systems within the human body, an even larger (and potentially dangerous) dose would be necessary to see a similar effect. More studies would be necessary in order to find a safe method of delivery AND get the same efficacy.
3) The actual in vivo studies (in mice) relied on small sample sizes. These studies aren't conclusive and many required a LARGE dose (as expected) to yield any results.
Another note: I'm not an expert, and I have not read every research paper out there on Ivermectin. Feel free to update me if new data has been released. I'm just putting in my "two cents".
Rogen was taking it under a doctor's care and wasn't really recommending it. The Covid Vaccine itself has virtually no studies into the long term health risks involved with it, so what difference does it make?
15 Oct 2021, 11:18 am
15 Oct 2021, 11:58 am
15 Oct 2021, 12:36 pm
15 Oct 2021, 12:46 pm
15 Oct 2021, 12:47 pm
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