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Pepe
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31 Oct 2021, 2:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you don’t like it, you don’t have to do it to your own boys.


Perhaps people should only be entitled to make that choice over their own genitals. What your parents prefer is irrelevant, they're not their parts to go mutilating.


:thumright: :thumleft:


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Pepe
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31 Oct 2021, 2:36 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Apologies for chopping up your post like this but there are just so many points I wanted to address.

AngelRho wrote:
Male circumcision doesn’t ordinarily cause problems for the child.
That's irrelevant, and "ordinarily" isn't good enough. It's also their body part, not yours and they should be able to make a choice later in life when they are better informed.

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I’m unaware of any legitimate basis for religious female circumcisions.
I don't believe there is any legitimate basis for forcibly mutilating the genitals of either sex.

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The point of male circumcision is ethnic identity.
It's not exactly a public statement though, is it? This identity "badge" that's kept tucked away in underwear, presumably only revealed to a partner - who is relieved(?) to find they're dating someone with an "approved" identity. Is that how this identity is supposed to achieve results?

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I rather like the idea of my boys and I having something special in common that makes us “set apart” similar to how the Jews were.
Personally, I'd be happy that they are my sons and already utterly unique but that's just me.

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Nevertheless, it’s still a cool idea. Therefore I had my boys cut.
8O There are no words...

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On a baby, the actual wound is minimal. I’ve had paper cuts worse that that.
When boys get older and get scraped knees falling off a bike it hurts worse than infant circumcision.
You'd know this how? And of course, when boys get older, they just have to live with this mutilation because there's no going back.

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The same can’t be said for a fully developed adult penis. Considering that just prior to the exodus certain Hebrews were circumcised with knives made from flint, infant circumcision is vastly more humane.
Phew, thank goodness those days of ritual mutilation are gone, eh?
Oh wait...

Quote:
Parents have the right to do as they like with their own children.
It's shocking to me that this includes mutilating them.

If you don’t like it, you don’t have to do it to your own boys.


I think you have lost the *intellectual* battle here. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


theprisoner
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31 Oct 2021, 2:52 pm

So it's okay to conduct a ritual mutilation of a defenseless infants reproductive parts, if it's a male, but not a female? What makes a longstanding 'tradition' legitimate, that you belong to it? does anybody see the double-standard there....i guess cultural conformity and fear of tribal ostracism is still powerful enough to override reason.


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naturalplastic
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31 Oct 2021, 2:57 pm

Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was standard practice to circumcise male newborns in the US until recently.

Female circumcision is generally worse for women than male circumcision is for males.

I’m not an advocate for circumcision.


It is way worse, a male getting circumsised still allows them to experience sexual pleasure and though maybe its not necessary in the U.S does seem a common thing to have done.

Female 'circumcision' involves literally cutting their clitoris out so they cannot experience sexual pleasure and they'll be lucky if it doesn't also make sex painful. Also its not necessarily even done in a sterile place its like relatives grabbing the child and holding her down while they amateurly butcher her genitals.

I won't say it is right to circumsize baby boys, maybe it would be better to leave it up to them. But it is not the same thing as female genital mutilation, it doesn't actually remove an organ form the body. Also since the clitoris basically has the purpose to cause an orgasm it means its an organ with a lot of feeling/nerves and things.

So I am not saying people shouldn't fight against circumcision and there aren't good reasons for that. But I do wish people would not try to compare fore-skin removal to cutting out a woman's clitoris because of archaic beliefs women should not be allowed pleasure from sex(I get the impression also a lot of times it is done to girls in adolescence). They aren't the same thing...female genital mutilation would be more akin to just slicing off the whole tip/head of the penis.

Absolutely. Female GM is much worse.


"Hitler killed millions.
Stalin murdered more.
Bother were very naughty boyz." 8)


We get it already. Youre a fan of Hitler.
And are offended by anyone speaking ill of him.

You dont need to intrude into a different topic just to keep reminding us.



naturalplastic
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31 Oct 2021, 3:11 pm

I am of the generation of American gentile guys who got clipped. And I survived. I did ok. So the male version doesnt seem all of that bad to me. Though it doesnt seem very necessary either. But all operation carry risk. There are horror stories of babies being forced to change their gender because of...botched circumcision in modern times.

We have freedom of religion in the US. But within reason. We dont allow Aztec style human sacrifice.

Arguably male circumcision by Jews and Muslims is so bad that its worth overriding the parents' freedom of religion to outlaw inflicting it on their newborns (but allowing it when the kid reaches an age of consent -16 or 18, or 21, -or like that- and decides to have it done to himself - to join the religious tribe).

So... I propose THAT. Outlawing for newborns, but allowing it for consenting adults at some cutoff age. No pun intended.



Erewhon
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31 Oct 2021, 4:43 pm

I find it very scary to "brand" the body of a defenseless person in a physical way. When a person is an adult, things are a bit more nuanced, but even then the individual can be overruled by social pressure. Viewed purely from an evolutionary point of view, everything that is naturally attached to a body has a function, also from that point of view i think cutting away is not healthy.



Pepe
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31 Oct 2021, 10:04 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was standard practice to circumcise male newborns in the US until recently.

Female circumcision is generally worse for women than male circumcision is for males.

I’m not an advocate for circumcision.


It is way worse, a male getting circumsised still allows them to experience sexual pleasure and though maybe its not necessary in the U.S does seem a common thing to have done.

Female 'circumcision' involves literally cutting their clitoris out so they cannot experience sexual pleasure and they'll be lucky if it doesn't also make sex painful. Also its not necessarily even done in a sterile place its like relatives grabbing the child and holding her down while they amateurly butcher her genitals.

I won't say it is right to circumsize baby boys, maybe it would be better to leave it up to them. But it is not the same thing as female genital mutilation, it doesn't actually remove an organ form the body. Also since the clitoris basically has the purpose to cause an orgasm it means its an organ with a lot of feeling/nerves and things.

So I am not saying people shouldn't fight against circumcision and there aren't good reasons for that. But I do wish people would not try to compare fore-skin removal to cutting out a woman's clitoris because of archaic beliefs women should not be allowed pleasure from sex(I get the impression also a lot of times it is done to girls in adolescence). They aren't the same thing...female genital mutilation would be more akin to just slicing off the whole tip/head of the penis.

Absolutely. Female GM is much worse.


"Hitler killed millions.
Stalin murdered more.
Bother were very naughty boyz." 8)


We get it already. Youre a fan of Hitler.
And are offended by anyone speaking ill of him.

You dont need to intrude into a different topic just to keep reminding us.


Are you seriously making a personal attack? :scratch:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Oct 2021, 10:08 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I am of the generation of American gentile guys who got clipped. And I survived. I did ok. So the male version doesnt seem all of that bad to me.

But you weren't given the choice. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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31 Oct 2021, 10:10 pm

Erewhon wrote:
I find it very scary to "brand" the body of a defenseless person in a physical way. When a person is an adult, things are a bit more nuanced, but even then the individual can be overruled by social pressure. Viewed purely from an evolutionary point of view, everything that is naturally attached to a body has a function, also from that point of view i think cutting away is not healthy.


What I find astounding is that religious people would deface god's work. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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01 Nov 2021, 12:39 am

theprisoner wrote:
So it's okay to conduct a ritual mutilation of a defenseless infants reproductive parts, if it's a male, but not a female? What makes a longstanding 'tradition' legitimate, that you belong to it? does anybody see the double-standard there....i guess cultural conformity and fear of tribal ostracism is still powerful enough to override reason.


I would not say that, like it may be time we don't just force circumcision on baby boys. So I will not defend that at all.

But the female genital mutilation is different, apparently much of times it is forced on them when they are adolescents. Also the purpose is diffferent it is specifically so they cannot enjoy sexual intercourse...wheras i don't think that was ever the goal of male circumcision. Also apparently a clitoris has 7,000 nerve endings so one might imagine having it brutally sliced out is well extremely painful and traumatic. Not saying circumcision is not problematic, but not sure the part being sliced in that case has 7,000 nerve endings.

I'd say perhaps no ones genitals should be f****d with, unless they consent to it that seems to be the best option.



naturalplastic
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01 Nov 2021, 1:00 am

Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I am of the generation of American gentile guys who got clipped. And I survived. I did ok. So the male version doesnt seem all of that bad to me.

But you weren't given the choice. 8)


I am not advocating it. Just saying that its not as bad (not as invasive and dangerous etc) as FGM.



Pepe
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01 Nov 2021, 4:01 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I am of the generation of American gentile guys who got clipped. And I survived. I did ok. So the male version doesnt seem all of that bad to me.

But you weren't given the choice. 8)


I am not advocating it. Just saying that its not as bad (not as invasive and dangerous etc) as FGM.


That is self-evident.
I am having a discussion involving "ethics".
I.E. Genital mutilation on babies, for no other reason than "Tradition", is unethical.
Simples. 8)

What are you talking about? :scratch:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


AngelRho
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01 Nov 2021, 6:00 am

Pepe wrote:
Erewhon wrote:
I find it very scary to "brand" the body of a defenseless person in a physical way. When a person is an adult, things are a bit more nuanced, but even then the individual can be overruled by social pressure. Viewed purely from an evolutionary point of view, everything that is naturally attached to a body has a function, also from that point of view i think cutting away is not healthy.


What I find astounding is that religious people would deface god's work. 8O

You say deface, I say enhance. If the instruction to do so comes from God, it’s God’s work. Indeed, my wife says she finds trimmed peckers MORE attractive.



theprisoner
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01 Nov 2021, 6:06 am

In the course of human history, how many people have been murdered because somebody believed "the instruction to do so comes from God," hundreds? thousands, millions? God’s work. or Satans work. sometimes it can be hard to tell.


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Lunella
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01 Nov 2021, 6:58 am

Circumcision is quite normal as a medical reason, I know plenty of non religious people who get their boys done.

I've seen it before where there's these kids who always end up being the pissy kid in school cause they weren't done and end up stinking cause they can't wash their foreskin right and it's got all kinds of cheese growing out of it. Don't really see it as a problem from the medical stance tbh.

I don't agree with the weird Jew sucking thing though, that's like.. beyond me.


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Pepe
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02 Nov 2021, 5:25 am

Lunella wrote:
Circumcision is quite normal as a medical reason, I know plenty of non religious people who get their boys done.

I've seen it before where there's these kids who always end up being the pissy kid in school cause they weren't done and end up stinking cause they can't wash their foreskin right and it's got all kinds of cheese growing out of it. Don't really see it as a problem from the medical stance tbh.

I don't agree with the weird Jew sucking thing though, that's like.. beyond me.


Long time no see. :mrgreen:
Welcome back. :heart:

Rather than lopping off bits and pieces of the body, I suggest introducing people to the concept of, erm, "washing". :mrgreen:
I wouldn't want to amputate my toes because of a toenail fungus, either. 8O

BTW, There are products like Canesten which overcome "cheesiness". 8)

Quote:
Clotrimazole
Medication
Clotrimazole, sold under the brand name Lotrimin, among others, is an antifungal medication. It is used to treat vaginal yeast infections, oral thrush, diaper rash, pityriasis versicolor, and types of ringworm including athlete's foot and jock itch. Wikipedia


I am not sure what you mean by "Jew sucking thing".
Muslims and Christians also circumcise, as has been mentioned already.
So this isn't an anti-Jewish discussion. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!