US conservative commentator demands US invades Australia

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DW_a_mom
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22 Oct 2021, 8:48 pm

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Didn't you know that the US right wing generally doesn't trust any polls except their own? And that it wouldn't matter how much evidence there was on the prevailing local opinion, as long as there was anyone shouting tyranny?

I'm not even being ironic. I can't remember ever being able to convince a conservative debate opponent that they hold a minority opinion regardless of how much I show them. When they do know their position is unpopular, its often - in their opinion - only because everyone else is brainwashed. I must say, the right way has concocted the perfect propaganda machine.


You say all that as if it's unique to the right, when it's just less subtle on that side. Have you ever seen me convince a liberal of anything even when what we're arguing about is on video and it's obvious they're incorrect?


Confirmation bias is obviously a very real thing. I understand the point, but has the left undermined the reliability of all data itself? Maybe its just my vantage point, but the right has made a science of rendering distrust of news and information.


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Dox47
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22 Oct 2021, 9:28 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Confirmation bias is obviously a very real thing. I understand the point, but has the left undermined the reliability of all data itself?


Yes!

Why do you think people on the right seem more susceptible to conspiracy theories and other outlandish ideas? It's because they know full well that media and academia are controlled by the left (not in a conspiracy kind of way, but in an overwhelmingly populated by way), and thus any information coming from them is tainted, and they go looking for alternate sources, some of which are less than reliable. The truth is that all media and science are subject to bias, but people on the right are more likely to notice it because the most common bias in media and science goes against them and thus sticks out to them, and this distrust then leads to some odd places, such as conspiracy theories and a reflexive skepticism of empirical data that isn't always justified.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Maybe its just my vantage point, but the right has made a science of rendering distrust of news and information.


It is your vantage point, as the news and information they're sowing doubt about is not trustworthy, which you'd likely be more able to see if it didn't go in a direction pleasing to you.


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cyberdad
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22 Oct 2021, 9:38 pm

Why do you think people on the right seem more susceptible to conspiracy theories and other outlandish ideas? It's because they know full well that media and academia are controlled by the left (not in a conspiracy kind of way, but in an overwhelmingly populated by way), and thus any information coming from them is tainted, and they go looking for alternate sources, some of which are less than reliable.

According to that logic it's equivalent of cutting of one's nose to spite their face. I am thinking of the 75 million Americans, many of whom have children who would put their faith (and children's lives) in conservative commentators spouting rather "alternative" opinions about COVID rather than listen to scientists and doctors.



cyberdad
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22 Oct 2021, 9:43 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Didn't you know that the US right wing generally doesn't trust any polls except their own? And that it wouldn't matter how much evidence there was on the prevailing local opinion, as long as there was anyone shouting tyranny?


Not only do these commentators not know geography, their general knowledge is pretty poor. We have a conservative coalition federal government led by a prime minister who loved Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... priorities

Would be like the Americans declaring war on the British during WWII :lol:



DW_a_mom
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22 Oct 2021, 9:59 pm

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Confirmation bias is obviously a very real thing. I understand the point, but has the left undermined the reliability of all data itself?


Yes!

Why do you think people on the right seem more susceptible to conspiracy theories and other outlandish ideas? It's because they know full well that media and academia are controlled by the left (not in a conspiracy kind of way, but in an overwhelmingly populated by way), and thus any information coming from them is tainted, and they go looking for alternate sources, some of which are less than reliable. The truth is that all media and science are subject to bias, but people on the right are more likely to notice it because the most common bias in media and science goes against them and thus sticks out to them, and this distrust then leads to some odd places, such as conspiracy theories and a reflexive skepticism of empirical data that isn't always justified.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Maybe its just my vantage point, but the right has made a science of rendering distrust of news and information.


It is your vantage point, as the news and information they're sowing doubt about is not trustworthy, which you'd likely be more able to see if it didn't go in a direction pleasing to you.


I find it false that the right deemed information unreliable solely because those obtaining it tend to have political views that are liberal. There used to be a full set of professional standards journalists held themselves to, that included education on how to see and present information without bias. Until the right made an issue of it in the 1980s, you didn't see factually different reporting in "left leaning" v "right leaning" news sources. The difference were subtle, mostly related to what they choose to cover, plus opinion sections, and we knew they existed, but it wasn't blatant. I felt comfortable back then following news sources regardless of how they leaned. I am actually old enough to remember how news used to be. Oh, and I grew up conservative, so ...

The right wasn't happy with that system and decided it needed clearly biased "news entertainment" in order to "balance" the scales. It is the right that ran quickly to "we aren't news" when challenged in court on their factual reporting, not the so called "mass media." There is a story in that, IMHO, because legal professionals and standards for what is admissible as fact are NOT, by population, inherently left leaning and, in fact, are based on hundreds of years of experience and data.

Today, yes, there is bias and "news entertainment" on the left. But I'll hold firm that is was the right that set out to shred all concept of professional standards and reliability. Right wing news entertainment has made a lot of money for people, but there is no comparison between news entertainment, and actual news. The loss of universally accepted and adhered to standards is deep.

I do understand your theory on trust, but which is the chicken and which is the egg? Is this topic part of your recent deep dive reading? Sorry, I can’t remember.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 22 Oct 2021, 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dial1194
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22 Oct 2021, 11:33 pm

...and why is anyone caring what some nutjob says?



Pepe
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22 Oct 2021, 11:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

While US rightwing commentators are keen to portray Australians suffering under tyranny, the public health measures adopted by federal, state and territory governments have been overwhelmingly supported by the Australian population.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... sed-people


Didn't you know that the US right wing doesn't trust any polls except their own? And that it wouldn't matter how much evidence there was on the prevailing local opinion, as long as there was anyone shouting tyranny?

I'm not even being ironic. I can't remember ever being able to convince a conservative debate opponent that they hold a minority opinion regardless of how much I show them. When they do know their position is unpopular, its only because everyone else is brainwashed. I must say, the right way has concocted the perfect propaganda machine.


It seems to be how they protect themselves from realizing they're a shrinking minority trying to impose their preferences on the majority.


The irony is, some on the right think the some on the left are closed-minded, also. :mrgreen:
There isn't a binary here. 8)


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Pepe
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22 Oct 2021, 11:52 pm

Dial1194 wrote:
...and why is anyone caring what some nutjob says?


Because he is living in their heads rent-free. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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22 Oct 2021, 11:57 pm

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Confirmation bias is obviously a very real thing. I understand the point, but has the left undermined the reliability of all data itself?


Yes!

Why do you think people on the right seem more susceptible to conspiracy theories and other outlandish ideas? It's because they know full well that media and academia are controlled by the left (not in a conspiracy kind of way, but in an overwhelmingly populated by way), and thus any information coming from them is tainted, and they go looking for alternate sources, some of which are less than reliable. The truth is that all media and science are subject to bias, but people on the right are more likely to notice it because the most common bias in media and science goes against them and thus sticks out to them, and this distrust then leads to some odd places, such as conspiracy theories and a reflexive skepticism of empirical data that isn't always justified.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Maybe its just my vantage point, but the right has made a science of rendering distrust of news and information.


It is your vantage point, as the news and information they're sowing doubt about is not trustworthy, which you'd likely be more able to see if it didn't go in a direction pleasing to you.


If people think there is *never* political BS on either side, at times, god help them. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


cyberdad
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23 Oct 2021, 12:01 am

Dial1194 wrote:
...and why is anyone caring what some nutjob says?


Because this nutjob may contest another nutjob in the 2024 US elections



DW_a_mom
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23 Oct 2021, 12:05 am

Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Confirmation bias is obviously a very real thing. I understand the point, but has the left undermined the reliability of all data itself?


Yes!

Why do you think people on the right seem more susceptible to conspiracy theories and other outlandish ideas? It's because they know full well that media and academia are controlled by the left (not in a conspiracy kind of way, but in an overwhelmingly populated by way), and thus any information coming from them is tainted, and they go looking for alternate sources, some of which are less than reliable. The truth is that all media and science are subject to bias, but people on the right are more likely to notice it because the most common bias in media and science goes against them and thus sticks out to them, and this distrust then leads to some odd places, such as conspiracy theories and a reflexive skepticism of empirical data that isn't always justified.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Maybe its just my vantage point, but the right has made a science of rendering distrust of news and information.


It is your vantage point, as the news and information they're sowing doubt about is not trustworthy, which you'd likely be more able to see if it didn't go in a direction pleasing to you.


If people think there is *never* political BS on either side, at times, god help them. 8O


I wouldn’t make that claim, but the games played by each side are definitely differently. The assault on data has been mostly a uniquely right wing game here in the US.

Data can be distorted, I know that. It is interesting for me to try to take a conservative designed survey because on a lot of them there is no response I can honestly say yes to. You either answer in the way that supports their goal, or you have to check an extreme position on the other side. Surely both sides can play that game, but not all data gets tainted by leading questions.


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cyberdad
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23 Oct 2021, 12:14 am

o



Brictoria
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23 Oct 2021, 6:01 am

For anyone interested in her actual words, rather than an editorialised transcript:

She makes it quite clear it wasn't a serious suggestion.


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